Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

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BeaverOwner
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Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by BeaverOwner »

My 2005 Beaver (built on SMC Magnum chassis) has the paint crazing issue. See photo below.

I read that the fiberglass supplied by Crane Composites and Dow Corning had issues. Coachmen, Monaco, American and others all had the fiberglass checking/crazing issue from around 2000 to 20008. Appearently everyone was buying their fiberglass sidewalls from the same suppliers.

As SMC had its own fiberglass company - did they also have this crazing issue (or did they get their fiberglass from Crane or Down Corning too)?


ImagePaint Checking-Crazing

Another example:
ImagePaint Checking-Crazing pic4
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)

stuplich@ymail.com
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

Mike
My 23 year old, always outside uncovered, now 150,000 mile, Sahara has no fiberglass crazing paint or fiberglass.
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison

wolfe10
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by wolfe10 »

Mel,

Isn't your coach aluminum sided? If so, agree, not likely to have fiberglass crazing.
Brett and Dianne Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'. Ex 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex 1993 Foretravel U240
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stuplich@ymail.com
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

wolfe10 wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:52 pm
Mel,
Isn't your coach aluminum sided? If so, agree, not likely to have fiberglass crazing.
Brett
Yes, the sides are "painted aluminum"... but the both the front and rear caps are "painted fiberglass".
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison

Moonwink
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by Moonwink »

The front and back caps aren't overlaid on the same lauan plywood the sides are so you won't see the crazing as much or at all on them.
Don Ford
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wolfe10
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by wolfe10 »

Moonwink wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:28 pm
The front and back caps aren't overlaid on the same lauan plywood the sides are so you won't see the crazing as much or at all on them.
Correct. Laminated pieces (front and back caps) are completely different than fiberglass sidewalls.
Brett and Dianne Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'. Ex 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex 1993 Foretravel U240
Moderator, FMCA Forums 2009-2020
Chairman, FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011- 2020
Moderator, http://www.dieselrvclub.org/ (FMCA chapter) 2002-

stuplich@ymail.com
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

Moonwink wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:28 pm
The front and back caps aren't overlaid on the same lauan plywood the sides are so you won't see the crazing as much or at all on them.
Moonwink
I agree, however "crazing paint" is not uncommon on either, (or both), of the fiberglass caps on other RV brands.
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison

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BeaverOwner
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by BeaverOwner »

I have crazing of the paint on the entry door (the dark brown stripe) - and probably elsewhere, but its most noticeable on the door since it is at eye level entering the coach.

However my coach is a 2005, and I'm asking/curious about the early 2000 SMC coaches with the fiberglass coming from SMC's subsidiary "Composite Technologies Inc."

I'm not sure if the 2005 fiberglass on the Beaver came from the SMC Fiberglass plant (CTI) or if it was a Beaver sourced fiberglass. I know the 2005 Beaver was built in the Beaver facility in Bend, but I'm not sure where Beaver got the fiberglass from (of course Beaver was an SMC product at that time so it would have made sense for it use the SMC fiberglass sidewalls).
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)

RSBILLEDWARDS
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by RSBILLEDWARDS »

I have an opinion based upon 40 years in the paint and body restoration business. One, the sides on our SMC coaches is an sandwich of components, the outer of which is aluminum, no fiberglass. The cap is a composite of gelcoat and chopped fiberglass applied with a special gun on to the back of the gelcoat which was sprayed into a mold. There is a release agent sprayed onto the mold that allows the finished unit to be removed basically ready to paint after minor cleanup.

Then paint checking, fracturing is I believe an application/adhesion issue. If you notice it occurs more frequently on dark surfaces and frequently on the murals but not beyond. It occurs on dark stripes but not usually beyond. My Ford 2003 F350 Super Duty which I bough brand new has the issue on the hood, ONLY. To my knowledge it was never painted unless it happened prior to the dealer delivery as the dealer did not. I would put money on the issue being a flaw in the hood at the MFG paint shop. The hood was still green and it was sanded and refinished. There are timing issues when painting these rigs. Said another way there is a window during which material must be applied for proper adhesion to occur. If the parameters are not met problems arise. If the paint is applied too quickly, before the window opens, problems arise, not always during the warranty period. It can be years before these issues appear as on my truck. It is very labor intensive and timing is of the utmost importance to get a lasing finish such as most of us have.

Now Flaky paint is another issue, for the most part easily explained. We called them "peelers" which was more often than not a result of not enough clear coat material applied. I should note here that there is a huge difference in CLEAR coat materials. There is a collision clear coat {cheap cost) and High Solids clear (more to very expensive). The latter was used on our coaches. When they began using Diamont on our coaches it was an expensive system but very efficient. It took generally speaking only 2 coats of color to cover the base white. In order to achieve a 5 year collision based life a minimum of 2 mils of cured film was needed. In ideal conditions or a skilled painter could apply this in two passes. The conditions were not always ideal and I can guarantee not all fellas sprayin were skilled and applied the material as needed except to make it nice and shiny. Those coaches still with intact surfaces likely got clear coat applications that exceeded 3 mils. Now, virtually all the coaches have failing paint on the radius of the roof to wall section of the filon. This is because it was the last pass and for the most part out of sight where the clear feathered to zero in an over spray zone and was much less than the 2 mil requirement.

I can note here that Monaco went away from the Diamont line fairly early in their ownership of SMC according to a source at Industrial Finishes.

RSBILLEDWARDS
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Re: Did the 2000 era SMC coaches have the fiberglass "crazing" issue

Post by RSBILLEDWARDS »

Answering Beaver owners question about crazing of "2000" Coaches. First there were the SMC coaches and the Monaco" built" Safari Coaches...Yes there were crazing issues in the later SMC coaches. The lower door on my Zanzibar had the issue and my Panther has a severe case on the mural and nowhere else.

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