Re: Electrical system,

Staging area for content imported from the old Yahoo group. This forum is LOCKED. Moderators may edit content and relocate to other forums as appropriate.
Bill Edwards
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by Bill Edwards »

' John, it is also a Monaco since it has a 350 CAT not an SMC coach


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
On Friday, August 9, 2019, 11:23 AM, TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote:  
Jamison,

Please, kindly, sign your post, as I/we have no idea what year and
model your coach is, so we are just forced to guess the type of layout
you have. On top of that, there are multiple members with electrical
issue, and it is almost impossible to keep track. If you already
posted on this topic, please include the previous description in your
last or initial post, as it jogs our memory and lets us easily and
quickly review your issue. I am more than willing to help, but the
moment my time is limited and on top of that my internet connection is
poor, so I don't have time digging for info. Please don't take
offense, but work with me.

Ok, after rereading your post, I think, if I remember correctly, that
you are the fellow whose engine won't shut off. If that is correct,
then you didn't answer the important question I asked, when I replied
to your initial post. The question was, did you recently install a new
alternator???
The reason I am asking, is if the alternator was installed
incorrectly, it WILL cause back feeding to your ignition, not allowing
the engine to shut off. So, if your answer is yes, please provide all
details on what brand and model of alternator it is and take pictures
of the backside of it. Make sure you take a few far away shots so the
wiring route can be seen too.

If you have not replaced the alternator, check the wiring on the back
side of the alternator to see if there is a diode on one of the wires,
if yes, the diode could have failed, causing the back feeding. Also
check and test your ignition switch for proper function, it could have
shorted out internally.

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd

On 8/9/19, hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> It's got a 350 cat w/Allison 6 speed, the ignition buss in the front EL bay
> is shutting off, The fan,,AC,,heat, etc all that stuff shuts off too. but
> the engine keeps running, I have to use the stop button in the engine bay,
> when I start it everthing works as it should with the key.. I've been trying
> to find a schematic for this coach but all I've been able to find is 1 from
> a 2005 cheetah and they're similar but not the same, I've got a solenoid
> under the bed in the rear that isn't opening but I haven't been able to
> trace it out yet.
'
rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3 »

'The alternator hasn't been replaced there's no diode back feeding the ignition, the key switch isn't shorted, I checked all of that before I posted originally, sorry I didn't include that info, the ignition buss powers down when the key is shut off.LJamison2000 serengeti'
rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3 »

'Got an ignition schematic from Jim Exler,, looking for backfeed on wire 201, haven't had any luck yet but also noted that the diagnostics display and the transmission indicator light on the DS armrest are powered up when the ignition key is turned off, pulled the plug from the back of the key switch, nothing changed, checked for power only the ignition supply from the front EL bay is hot. will continue tomorrow.
LJamison2000 safari serengeti'
John Wolfe
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:05 am

Re: Electrical system,

Post by John Wolfe »

'Where are you located?
John Wolfe 2002 Safari Zanzibar 
On Fri, Aug 9, 2019, 10:05 PM hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  The alternator hasn't been replaced there's no diode back feeding the ignition, the key switch isn't shorted, I checked all of that before I posted originally, sorry I didn't include that info, the ignition buss powers down when the key is shut off.LJamison2000 serengeti
'
James Exler
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:10 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by James Exler »

'





Leon,

Have you checked the ignition solenoid? It should only have power on the load side if the key is on.

Check the load side with the key off; if it is hot then either the solenoid is being fired, it is welded in the on position or a wire is feeding the load side from an outside source.

Another member that posted a picture of theirs showed terminals that sure looked like they could be touching the case. Insure that is not the situation.


Jim Exler

On 8/11/2019 5:43 PM, hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 

Got an ignition schematic from Jim Exler,, looking for backfeed on wire 201, haven't had any luck yet but also noted that the diagnostics display and the transmission indicator light on the DS armrest are powered up when the ignition key is turned off,
pulled the plug from the back of the key switch, nothing changed, checked for power only the ignition supply from the front EL bay is hot. will continue tomorrow.


LJamison
2000 safari serengeti




Image

Virus-free.
www.avg.com







'
rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3 »

'I checked the solenoid in the front EL bay, it's working as it should, closed with the key on, open with it off, the accessories like the fan shut off with the key, I unplugged the key switch and disconnected the ignition solenoid (verified the ignition buss is powered down which it was) and the diagnostic and trans indicator still stayed on. LJamison2000 safari serengeti '
TD
Posts: 767
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:01 am

Re: Electrical system,

Post by TD »

'Jamison,

You should have a small fuse box in your battery compartment, that has
one or two relays that feed the Allison and the CAT ECM, check and
that relay, it could be welded closed.

John
'95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3

On 8/12/19, hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> I checked the solenoid in the front EL bay, it's working as it should,
> closed with the key on, open with it off, the accessories like the fan shut
> off with the key, I unplugged the key switch and disconnected the ignition
> solenoid (verified the ignition buss is powered down which it was) and the
> diagnostic and trans indicator still stayed on.
> LJamison
> 2000 safari serengeti
>
'
rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3 »

'I have 1 relay in the battery compartment (the ECM relay) and 1 on the back side of the Engine box (the Stop relay), both are working as they should (continuity 30-87a)  with no power but the stop relay has power on 86 causing both relays to shift. If I disconnect power to the Cat ECM it cuts the power to the stop relay 86 pin (wire 201) with the key off, not sure how the power for the ECM is back feeding wire 201.'
James Exler
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:10 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by James Exler »

'





Leon,

You need to look at the drawing again. The engine ECM relay should have pin 87 (NO) connected to the ECM. Pin 85 (coil) should be grounded and pin 86 (coil) should be connected to pin 87a (NC) of the stop relay.

Power should come in on wire 201 through the connector, go through the stop relay NC contacts (30-87a) and on to the coil connection (86) of the ECM relay.

That relay should applied the fused power from the battery to the ECM (30 - 87).

When you press the STOP button, the stop relay should fire and remove the coil power from the ECM relay.


That is not what you are reporting so something is wrong.

Jim Exler

On 8/13/2019 1:35 PM, hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 


I have 1 relay in the battery compartment (the ECM relay) and 1 on the back side of the Engine box (the Stop relay), both are working as they should (continuity 30-87a)  with no power but the stop relay has power on 86 causing both relays to shift. If I
disconnect power to the Cat ECM it cuts the power to the stop relay 86 pin (wire 201) with the key off, not sure how the power for the ECM is back feeding wire 201.




Image

Virus-free.
www.avg.com







'
rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Re: Electrical system,

Post by rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3 »

'The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop relay which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm relay which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to send the ignition power from pin 30 - 87 powering the ecm. I pulled both relays out to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from pin 30 - 87a as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85  indicating a coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop button is pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin 86 on the ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state removing the power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure out is how the ECM supply fuse (located on the supply side of the EL buss in the front EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201  (which goes thru the stop relay to pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm), when I disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore and the engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut off as they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and the engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with the diagnostic display and the trans indicator, but I need to figure out where it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's connected on the supply side as it should be.LJamison2000 safari serengeti
'
Locked