Re: Electrical system,

[Robert Lewis]

' Leon
This may be different from your problem, but I worked with John on a problem on the 12v boost solenoid that bridges the chassis and house batteries and the solenoid would not turn off. I think the echo charger ground was connected to the ground on the signal ground on the solenoid. We disconnected the echo charger and solar controller which corrected the problem of the solenoid being held on. The echo charger had failed. It might be helpful to temporarily Label and remove the echo charger wires.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 13, 2019 8:18:23 PM "hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop relay which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm relay which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to send the ignition power from pin 30 - 87 powering the ecm. I pulled both relays out to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from pin 30 - 87a as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85  indicating a coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop button is pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin 86 on the ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state removing the power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure out is how the ECM supply fuse (located on the supply side of the EL buss in the front EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201  (which goes thru the stop relay to pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm), when I disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore and the engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut off as they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and the engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with the diagnostic display and the trans indicator, but I need to figure out where it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's connected on the supply side as it should be.LJamison2000 safari serengeti

'

[technolog1]

'My 93 cont boost does not seem to work. Can anyone tell me where th e boost solenoid Is located and how to test. ThanksCraig  93 cont 8.3 6sp

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]" Date: 8/14/19 1:01 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: Electrical system,
 
Leon
This may be different from your problem, but I worked with John on a problem on the 12v boost solenoid that bridges the chassis and house batteries and the solenoid would not turn off. I think the echo charger ground was connected to the ground on the signal ground on the solenoid. We disconnected the echo charger and solar controller which corrected the problem of the solenoid being held on. The echo charger had failed. It might be helpful to temporarily Label and remove the echo charger wires.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 13, 2019 8:18:23 PM "hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop relay which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm relay which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to send the ignition power from pin 30 - 87 powering the ecm. I pulled both relays out to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from pin 30 - 87a as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85  indicating a coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop button is pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin 86 on the ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state removing the power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure out is how the ECM supply fuse (located on the supply side of the EL buss in the front EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201  (which goes thru the stop relay to pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm), when I disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore and the engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut off as they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and the engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with the diagnostic display and the trans indicator, but I need to figure out where it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's connected on the supply side as it should be.LJamison2000 safari serengeti

'

[James Exler]

'





Leon,

It appears the relays are operating as they should. The problem seems to be where wire 201 is fed.

I see nothing that shows a fuse in the forward compartment to supply the ECM. Do you have documentation that shows this? On my 98 Sahara, there were a pair of wires connected directly to the chassis battery that fed the ECM. The plus leg had an inline fuse
holder and went directly to the ECM relay as shown on my drawing.

Wire 201 should receive its power from the load side of the ignition relay and cycle with the key. Your test confirms this, what is the problem?

Unless you have owned this coach since it was new, you have no idea who may have made changes. My diagram is correct based on OEM info that I have collected and I would have no problem with this layout.

One thing that has not been mentioned that I can remember; does your coach have the small panel in the battery compartment that holds fuses and the ECM relay?

Jim Exler

On 8/13/2019 7:58 PM, hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

 

The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop relay which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm relay which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to send the ignition power from pin 30 -
87 powering the ecm. I pulled both relays out to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from pin 30 - 87a as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85  indicating a coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop
button is pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin 86 on the ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state removing the power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure out is how the ECM supply fuse (located
on the supply side of the EL buss in the front EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201  (which goes thru the stop relay to pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm), when I disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore
and the engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut off as they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and the engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with the diagnostic display and the
trans indicator, but I need to figure out where it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's connected on the supply side as it should be.
LJamison
2000 safari serengeti

Virus-free.
www.avg.com






'

[Robert Lewis]

' Craig
There are pictures  under ...power 
https://safarifriends.org/attachments/2000%20Safari%20Continental/
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 14, 2019 4:25:46 AM "technolog1 technolog1@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
My 93 cont boost does not seem to work. Can anyone tell me where th e boost solenoid Is located and how to test. ThanksCraig  93 cont 8.3 6sp

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: "Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]" Date: 8/14/19 1:01 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: Electrical system,
 
Leon
This may be different from your problem, but I worked with John on a problem on the 12v boost solenoid that bridges the chassis and house batteries and the solenoid would not turn off. I think the echo charger ground was connected to the ground on the signal ground on the solenoid. We disconnected the echo charger and solar controller which corrected the problem of the solenoid being held on. The echo charger had failed. It might be helpful to temporarily Label and remove the echo charger wires.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 13, 2019 8:18:23 PM "hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop relay which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm relay which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to send the ignition power from pin 30 - 87 powering the ecm. I pulled both relays out to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from pin 30 - 87a as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85  indicating a coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop button is pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin 86 on the ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state removing the power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure out is how the ECM supply fuse (located on the supply side of the EL buss in the front EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201  (which goes thru the stop relay to pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm), when I disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore and the engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut off as they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and the engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with the diagnostic display and the trans indicator, but I need to figure out where it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's connected on the supply side as it should be.LJamison2000 safari serengeti

'

[mel96safari]

'RobertThe  Battery Boost Solenoid is missing in your picture at  "power 1.jpg.", in the Safarifriends Files.My Battery Boost Solenoid is in the far right corner... (where there appear to be only old no longer used mounting holes in your picture).Mel'96 Sahara


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

CraigThere are pictures  under ...power
https://safarifriends.org/attachments/2000%20Safari%20Continental/Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060

'

[TD]

'Leon and Jim,

Right now I'm very limited on internet access and time, so I will do
my best to go by memory and the info should be verified, but should
still point you in the right direction.

The newer coaches should have a small fuse panel, that also holds the
ECM relay. If I recall correctly, one of those fuses provides constant
power to the ECM. The 201 wire, as Jim stated, is supposed to get
power from the ignition load side. I don't recall if on the newer
coaches if the power comes from the front electrical bay or the small
fuse panel in the battery compartment. Either way, you now know, that
wire 201 needs to be connected to the ignition load side, so you can
and have temporarily resolved your issue, so, yay, problem solved! Now
if you want to waist your time and drive yourself baddy, trying to
figure out how the wire got switched, be my guest, as we really can't
help you with that.

John
'95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3-300

On 8/14/19, James Exler jimxexler@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:

> Leon,
>
> It appears the relays are operating as they should. The problem seems to be
> where wire 201 is fed.
>
> I see nothing that shows a fuse in the forward compartment to supply the
> ECM. Do you have documentation that shows this? On my 98 Sahara, there were
> a pair of wires connected directly to the chassis battery that fed the ECM.
> The plus leg had an inline fuse holder and went directly to the ECM relay as
> shown on my drawing.
>
> Wire 201 should receive its power from the load side of the ignition relay
> and cycle with the key. Your test confirms this, what is the problem?
>
> Unless you have owned this coach since it was new, you have no idea who may
> have made changes. My diagram is correct based on OEM info that I have
> collected and I would have no problem with this layout.
>
> One thing that has not been mentioned that I can remember; does your coach
> have the small panel in the battery compartment that holds fuses and the ECM
> relay?
>
> Jim Exler
>
> On 8/13/2019 7:58 PM, hleonjamison@...
> [Safarifriends] wrote:
>
> The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop relay
> which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm relay
> which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to send the
> ignition power from pin 30 - 87 powering the ecm. I pulled both relays out
> to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from pin 30 - 87a
> as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85 indicating a
> coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop button is
> pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin 86 on the
> ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state removing the
> power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure out is how
> the ECM supply fuse (located on the supply side of the EL buss in the front
> EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201 (which goes thru the stop relay to
> pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm), when I
> disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore and the
> engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut off as
> they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and the
> engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with the
> diagnostic display and the trans indicator, but I need to figure out where
> it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's connected on
> the supply side as it should be.
> LJamison
> 2000 safari serengeti
>
>
>
> [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png%5d
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
>

'

[TD]

'Craig,

Your Oshkosh coach may be different, but the boost solenoid is usually
in the engine compartment, by the isolator, and it is usually larger
than the one you had pictured. The test is the same, when the boost
switch is not activated, you should have no power at the signal
terminal and no power at the load side, just power at the supply side.
When the boost switch is activated, you are supposed to have power at
all 3 terminals that I just mentioned.

John
'95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3-300

On 8/14/19, technolog1 technolog1@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:

> My 93 cont boost does not seem to work. Can anyone tell me where th e boost
> solenoid Is located and how to test. ThanksCraig 93 cont 8.3 6spSent from
> my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> -------- Original message --------From: "Robert Lewis
> robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]"
> Date: 8/14/19 1:01 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: Electrical system,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> LeonThis may be different from your problem, but I worked with John on a
> problem on the 12v boost solenoid that bridges the chassis and house
> batteries and the solenoid would not turn off. I think the echo charger
> ground was connected to the ground on the signal ground on the solenoid. We
> disconnected the echo charger and solar controller which corrected the
> problem of the solenoid being held on. The echo charger had failed. It might
> be helpful to temporarily Label and remove the echo charger wires.Robert and
> Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison
> MD3060https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
>
> On August 13, 2019 8:18:23 PM "hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]"
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The power on pin 86 on the stop relay is tied to pin 30 on the stop
> relay which goes thru the stop relay (pin30 - 87a) to pin 86 on the ecm
> relay which brings the coil on the ecm relay in shifting the ecm relay to
> send the ignition power from pin 30 - 87 powering the ecm. I pulled both
> relays out to check them for continuity and they both had continuity from
> pin 30 - 87a as they should (with no power) and resistance from 86 - 85
> indicating a coil. When pin 85 on the stop relay is grounded (when the stop
> button is pushed) is shifts the stop coil and breaks the power supply to pin
> 86 on the ecm relay which returns the ecm relay to it's normal state
> removing the power from pin 87 (the supply to the ecm). what I can't figure
> out is how the ECM supply fuse (located on the supply side of the EL buss in
> the front EL bay) is supplying power to wire 201 (which goes thru the stop
> relay to pin 86 on the ecm relay causing it to shift and power up the ecm),
> when I disconnect it from the buss I don't have power on wire 201 anymore
> and the engine diagnostic display and transmission shift indicator both shut
> off as they should. I moved it to the load side buss (just for a test) and
> the engine starts and shuts off with the key as it's supposed to along with
> the diagnostic display and the trans indicator, but I need to figure out
> where it's back feeding so I can shut if off with the key when it's
> connected on the supply side as it should be.LJamison2000 safari serengeti
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

'

[Robert Lewis]

' Mel
The large black solenoid at the top of the picture, power...1 is the boost solenoid. That is the solenoid that merges the house and coach battery banks together and is the solenoid that is controlled by the switch in the drivers console.
I didnt recheck 2&3, but it is shown in 1 think.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 14, 2019 10:08:51 AM "stuplich@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
RobertThe  Battery Boost Solenoid is missing in your picture at  "power 1.jpg.", in the Safarifriends Files.My Battery Boost Solenoid is in the far right corner... (where there appear to be only old no longer used mounting holes in your picture).Mel'96 Sahara


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

CraigThere are pictures  under ...power
https://safarifriends.org/attachments/2000%20Safari%20Continental/Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpAllison MD3060

'

[rn752g5ima6vii7n7mq5yd5koa2lywkjgptyn5a3]

'I've finally figured out the problem, had an ignition solenoid fail on the way back from Alaska, had it replaced at a shop in N. Dakota. the new solenoid welded itself shut almost instantly, I drove it home using the electrical disconnect switch and engine stop button in the service bay, replaced the solenoid with a continuous duty 250 amp unit.. Sorry to say I connected the cables as they were on the 1 replaced in ND. They had swapped the battery/Ignition side. and I didn't realize this until I got a drawing from J Exler of the layout. swapped the cables and everything works as it should. Thanks for all the suggestions. it's amazing how much documentation helps.LJamison2000 safari senergeti'

[TD]

'Leon,

I'm glad you resolved your ignition issue, with Jim's help. He is
truly a huge asset to this great group.

I gotta ask, why did you not include some key important info that you
just mentioned, about having the solenoid replaced in ND, in your
initial post??? Had you included this info, we would have likely
helped you resolve this issue much more quickly, saving you time,
anguish, and frustration. Please don't take offense, as I'm not trying
to single you out, this just happens often with many of our members.
Your situation just happens to be a text book example of how omitting
important and even seemingly non important information, makes the
diagnostic process much more difficult for the ones trying to help and
the ones needing the help.

Fellow members, please, try your best to work with the ones that are
trying to help. Always try to provide as much info as possible, even
if it seems irrelevant, and also try your best to answer any questions
that are being asked, even if they may seem odd or irrelevant. If you
don't know the answer or don't understand the questions, then say so,
don't just ignore the questions.

Thank you,

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd

On 8/16/19, hleonjamison@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:

> I've finally figured out the problem, had an ignition solenoid fail on the
> way back from Alaska, had it replaced at a shop in N. Dakota. the new
> solenoid welded itself shut almost instantly, I drove it home using the
> electrical disconnect switch and engine stop button in the service bay,
> replaced the solenoid with a continuous duty 250 amp unit.. Sorry to say I
> connected the cables as they were on the 1 replaced in ND. They had swapped
> the battery/Ignition side. and I didn't realize this until I got a drawing
> from J Exler of the layout. swapped the cables and everything works as it
> should. Thanks for all the suggestions. it's amazing how much documentation
> helps.
> LJamison
> 2000 safari senergeti
>

'