Re: Alternator sense wire (was:Replacing the isolator with boost sol

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Bilmac36
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: Replacing the isolator with boost solenoid

Post by Bilmac36 »

'Robert, Most hour meters on rigs of this age are analog and tick over a tenth’s digit as they count the passage of time in hours.  As Taylor noted, my engine hour meter is also in my service bay as well. My generator’s is inside the coach above the entrance door.
Most folks will either use a marker and write date and hours on a surface they typically will only see and/or keep a written log of hours noting date and time. Over the years I’ve grown to noting mine in an email to myself with various key words in the subject to make it easily searchable.
I am sure a separate resettable digital hour meter could also be installed if a person was so inclined to add one to use for maintenance intervals.But, sometimes the KIS rule applies. Written logs have been around for ages and are very effective.R/Willie, Connie is ‘95 Continental, 8.3L, Ally 6spd 

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:52 PM, W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Yes. I would disconnect and insulate the white wire and see if anything quits working.  
With a solenoid replacing the isolator, yes, their should no longer be a need for remote sensing. 
Most permanently installed generators have hour meters to keep up with servicing.  I have never seen a resettable one.  v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 2:07 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Taylor

Yes, the white wire disappears into the loom and this is not the original altenator. The previous owners told me they had changed the unit.

If I understand this correctly, I short remove the white wire and isolate it from shorting anywhere.

I will check the tach and charge light (if it exists... I don't remember seeing that indicator).

Thank you for the help.

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org



W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 1:57 AM:
  Robert, I presume the small white wire does not go inside the generator case but disappears into a wire loom?  Per the attached information found on another forum, that alternator has a built in regulator with internal voltage sensing like a “single wire” alternator I described earlier. In other words, it does not use a remote voltage sensing line. 
I may guess this is not your original alternator, but may have been used to replace an original alternator that used a regulator sensing wire.  If that is the case, you can insulate the end if the wire and abandon it in place. 
If this alternator was the original that came on the chassis, there are two additional (optional) wires that can connect to a black blockon it for a tachometer signal feed and a dash alternator light feed.  If your tachometer still works without it connected, and you have no “charge” lamp on your dash, I would ignore these two potential connections.  
Delco SI series alternator connection information follows;
       COMMON DELCO SI SERIES ALTERNATOR WIRING DIAGRAMby David Smith Sep 22, 2016 6 comments
 We are commonly asked how to wire the Delco SI series alternators upon maintenance or upgrading from an older generator. While this series of unit often runs as a self exciting one wire, agricultural applications also used 3 wire connections to the alternator. If you are looking for the no charge indicator light on the dash to function as well, this should help determine which connection to use.*This diagram shows the simple wiring diagram for negative ground Delco SI series alternators.*The ignition switch is most commonly powered from the starter battery stud, but source may vary depending on application. With key on power is then transferred through the no charge indicator light to the #1 spade on the alternator regulator connection. This connection acts as a ground allowing the no charge indicator light to work, until the alternator starts charging - the alternator will then push 12v+ back up towards the indicator light cancelling out the circuit and shutting the light off. Depending on switch circuitry there may also be a diode before the #1 spade to prevent the current when charging from back feeding the ignition switch and not allowing unit shut down.The #2 spade on the alternators regulator connection may be either powered full time, or may be wired to be on/off with ignition - either will work. For this diagram we are wiring it right back with the alternators output post which is BAT+ full time.The third spade connection in this diagram is optional and will not be present on all units. This is one of the three phase connections and is most commonly used to function electronic tachometers. This connection is not necessary for unit to function even if it is present.The main points to remember are both the #1 and #2 regulator connections are BAT+ with key on. The #1 regulator connection must be off with ignition off to prevent battery drain. Alternator ground connection is the casing, grounding back through bracketing and eventually through battery ground cable. Make sure all connections, including battery ground cable, are clean and tight.*This is a basic wiring guide and will not cover every application or scenario. Always use caution when modifying a system. While Smith Co Electric deems this information accurate, we are not liable for problems arising from use of this information.
Next Post          Hi Peter – the 240-210 should be agood replacement with the R terminalto operate the tach. You can view ithere: https://smithcoelectric.com/products/240- 210-new-alternator-for-delco-10si- type-116-3-wire-12v-72aPETER - APRIL 29, 2019
Can anyone recommend an alternator with AC tap to operate a tach.? I’m replacing a Delco Remy 12V unit that went under water from hurricane Florence; all identification numbers and ID plate are unreadable due to salt corrosion. Output should be about 60 amp.SMITH CO ELECTRIC - APRIL 12, 2019If not using a warning lamp, the #1 spade can be connected to ignition switched bat+. Just make sure it goes off with key off.
MATT - APRIL 12, 2019How are GM SI series alternators wired without a warning lamp?SMITH CO ELECTRIC - OCTOBER 31,2018It could be either, the tachometer is reading the speed of the alternator regardless of what type of engine is powering it.
RYAN - OCTOBER 31, 2018Blade three is used for the tachometer. Would you engine need to be a gas for the tachometer to work or can it work with a diesel?
v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018           




On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:39 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used. There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.

 Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
 https://safaritoonces.org




TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist..com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>





'
r/Willie
'95 Safari Continental, Cummins 8.3L, Allison MD3060
robert.lewis.tl@gmail.com
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Replacing the isolator with boost solenoid

Post by robert.lewis.tl@gmail.com »

'Thanks Willie, I agree... a simple gauge and record book works best. Sometimes the tunnel vision acquired by digital technology clouds the obvious.
Thank you to everyone that helped with my alternator boost solenoid problem. I wired this as Taylor suggested and the tach works and there are no error lights.
I will wire in the relay to the boost solenoid signal in the dash area next.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Robert, Most hour meters on rigs of this age are analog and tick over a tenth’s digit as they count the passage of time in hours.  As Taylor noted, my engine hour meter is also in my service bay as well. My generator’s is inside the coach above the entrance door.
Most folks will either use a marker and write date and hours on a surface they typically will only see and/or keep a written log of hours noting date and time. Over the years I’ve grown to noting mine in an email to myself with various key words in the subject to make it easily searchable.
I am sure a separate resettable digital hour meter could also be installed if a person was so inclined to add one to use for maintenance intervals.But, sometimes the KIS rule applies. Written logs have been around for ages and are very effective.R/Willie, Connie is ‘95 Continental, 8.3L, Ally 6spd 

Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:52 PM, W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Yes. I would disconnect and insulate the white wire and see if anything quits working.  
With a solenoid replacing the isolator, yes, their should no longer be a need for remote sensing. 
Most permanently installed generators have hour meters to keep up with servicing.  I have never seen a resettable one.  v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 2:07 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Taylor

Yes, the white wire disappears into the loom and this is not the original altenator. The previous owners told me they had changed the unit.

If I understand this correctly, I short remove the white wire and isolate it from shorting anywhere.

I will check the tach and charge light (if it exists... I don't remember seeing that indicator).

Thank you for the help.

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org



W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 1:57 AM:
 Robert, I presume the small white wire does not go inside the generator case but disappears into a wire loom?  Per the attached information found on another forum, that alternator has a built in regulator with internal voltage sensing like a “single wire” alternator I described earlier. In other words, it does not use a remote voltage sensing line. 
I may guess this is not your original alternator, but may have been used to replace an original alternator that used a regulator sensing wire.  If that is the case, you can insulate the end if the wire and abandon it in place. 
If this alternator was the original that came on the chassis, there are two additional (optional) wires that can connect to a black blockon it for a tachometer signal feed and a dash alternator light feed.  If your tachometer still works without it connected, and you have no “charge” lamp on your dash, I would ignore these two potential connections.  
Delco SI series alternator connection information follows;
       COMMON DELCO SI SERIES ALTERNATOR WIRING DIAGRAMby David Smith Sep 22, 2016 6 comments
 We are commonly asked how to wire the Delco SI series alternators upon maintenance or upgrading from an older generator. While this series of unit often runs as a self exciting one wire, agricultural applications also used 3 wire connections to the alternator. If you are looking for the no charge indicator light on the dash to function as well, this should help determine which connection to use.*This diagram shows the simple wiring diagram for negative ground Delco SI series alternators.*The ignition switch is most commonly powered from the starter battery stud, but source may vary depending on application. With key on power is then transferred through the no charge indicator light to the #1 spade on the alternator regulator connection. This connection acts as a ground allowing the no charge indicator light to work, until the alternator starts charging - the alternator will then push 12v+ back up towards the indicator light cancelling out the circuit and shutting the light off. Depending on switch circuitry there may also be a diode before the #1 spade to prevent the current when charging from back feeding the ignition switch and not allowing unit shut down.The #2 spade on the alternators regulator connection may be either powered full time, or may be wired to be on/off with ignition - either will work. For this diagram we are wiring it right back with the alternators output post which is BAT+ full time.The third spade connection in this diagram is optional and will not be present on all units. This is one of the three phase connections and is most commonly used to function electronic tachometers. This connection is not necessary for unit to function even if it is present.The main points to remember are both the #1 and #2 regulator connections are BAT+ with key on. The #1 regulator connection must be off with ignition off to prevent battery drain. Alternator ground connection is the casing, grounding back through bracketing and eventually through battery ground cable. Make sure all connections, including battery ground cable, are clean and tight.*This is a basic wiring guide and will not cover every application or scenario. Always use caution when modifying a system. While Smith Co Electric deems this information accurate, we are not liable for problems arising from use of this information.
Next Post          Hi Peter – the 240-210 should be agood replacement with the R terminalto operate the tach. You can view ithere: https://smithcoelectric.com/products/240- 210-new-alternator-for-delco-10si- type-116-3-wire-12v-72aPETER - APRIL 29, 2019
Can anyone recommend an alternator with AC tap to operate a tach.? I’m replacing a Delco Remy 12V unit that went under water from hurricane Florence; all identification numbers and ID plate are unreadable due to salt corrosion. Output should be about 60 amp.SMITH CO ELECTRIC - APRIL 12, 2019If not using a warning lamp, the #1 spade can be connected to ignition switched bat+. Just make sure it goes off with key off.
MATT - APRIL 12, 2019How are GM SI series alternators wired without a warning lamp?SMITH CO ELECTRIC - OCTOBER 31,2018It could be either, the tachometer is reading the speed of the alternator regardless of what type of engine is powering it.
RYAN - OCTOBER 31, 2018Blade three is used for the tachometer. Would you engine need to be a gas for the tachometer to work or can it work with a diesel?
v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018           




On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:39 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used. There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.

 Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
 https://safaritoonces.org




TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist..com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>




'
Al Glick
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:16 am

Re: Replacing the isolator with boost solenoid

Post by Al Glick »

'The sense wire goes to the battery, would serve no purpose connected to alternator....
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 1:25 PM robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage. It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to be there or where you goes.

On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org
'
mel96safari
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:06 am

Alternator sense wire (was:Replacing the isolator with boost solenoi

Post by mel96safari »

' (no signature?)The former subject of this thread, (Replacing the isolator with boost solenoid), has nothing to do with the alternator sense wire.
That said, on my coach the sense wire FROM the alternator, runs TO the starter end of the heavy gauge chassis battery cable connected to the starter.   

On some Safaris the sense wire, (from the alternator), is connected directly to the chassis battery positive post to which that large power cable to the starter is connected
Mel
'96 Sahara, Delco Remy 21SI alternator


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The sense wire goes to the battery, would serve no purpose connected to alternator....
'
Robert Lewis
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Alternator sense wire (was:Replacing the isolator with boost sol

Post by Robert Lewis »

' Mel
Thank you, I removed the wire.
How the extra wire entered the discussion was because the isolator caused a diode drop. It was pointed out that this sense wire accounted for that drop by bypassing the diode, thereby allowing a full charge on the battery.
Now with the isolator removed there is no drop so there is no need for the sense wire.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 24, 2019 11:58:29 AM "stuplich@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
(no signature?)The former subject of this thread, (Replacing the isolator with boost solenoid), has nothing to do with the alternator sense wire.
That said, on my coach the sense wire FROM the alternator, runs TO the starter end of the heavy gauge chassis battery cable connected to the starter.   

On some Safaris the sense wire, (from the alternator), is connected directly to the chassis battery positive post to which that large power cable to the starter is connected
Mel
'96 Sahara, Delco Remy 21SI alternator


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

The sense wire goes to the battery, would serve no purpose connected to alternator....

'
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