Re: Alternator sense wire (was:Replacing the isolator with boost sol

[W Taylor Hudson]

'Attachments :To clarify, the small red wire at 2:00 is the + regulator sense wire.  The large terminal at 4:00 is the alternator output (which landed on your corner battery isolator terminal).  The two small black wires come from the regulator and are landed on the negative terminal (@ 9:00).  This alternator unusually has a negative terminal so it can be installed on either negative or positively grounded vehicles, the case is not grounded to either terminal. v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3226acquired 2018

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 7:11 PM Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
thanks for the picture... I wonder if I have something wrong... I only have a single post with two wires. There is another post at the bottom with nothing on it and I thought this was a ground. I will post a picture in 2 hours when I get back.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 20, 2019 3:53:27 PM "W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
[img]cid:16cb14dcc67cdbd4d801[/img]v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 6:51 PM W Taylor Hudson wrote:
Robert,Just looked, did not see where my sense wire is landed.  It must be somewhere between the old battery isolator terminal and a positive terminal of our chassis batteries.  
Have attached a picture of the back of my alternator (Leece-Neville), the small red wire with the two bad splices are my alternator sense wire.  This replacement alternator came with a ring terminal on that wire that was landed on output terminal. 

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 6:29 PM Robert Lewis robert..lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Taylor
I removed the isolator and am using the boost solenoid as a bridge between the house and chassis batteries for charging when engine is running. 
I think I understand what you're saying about the voltage drop difference that causes the batteries to reach full charge when there is an isolator in the circuit . 
What I don't understand is the white wire comes from the same terminal as the output heavy current wire for charging the battery banks. Is there a sensing circuit in the alternator output?. 
Now where should I hook the white wire... should it go to the 12v chassis battery which would be exactly the same connection point as the output of the alternator right now? 
Or do I just remove it ... I don't think there is a separate regulator for this alternator that I can find.

There were just these two wires on the same alternator post.
Thanks for the help.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org







On August 20, 2019 2:56:34 PM "W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
Robert,If it is a smaller wire of around 12-14 gauge, it is a voltage sense wire for the regulator in the back of the alternator.  If you trace it you should find it landed on or downstream of the old isolator’s chassis terminal battery post.  This was done as there could be upwards of a half volt of voltage drop across the diode in your old isolator. This could be the difference as to whether batteries are charged completely or to only 60% of capacity. By sensing the voltage after the diode, the regulator would see the half volt drop and increase the alternator’s output by half a volt to make up for the loss, ensuring the battery sets are charged to 100%.  If it is not landed on the battery isolator presently, it should already be in the proper place.  If it was on the isolators chassis terminal, I would put it on the “output” terminal of your new power relay. 
In vehicles without diode isolators, they are typically internally landed on the alternator’s output terminal providing the convenience of a “single wire” alternator.v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Sahara Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018 
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:57 PM TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>










'

[Robert Lewis]

' The top terminal... There is only one.... I will send a picture.
I was told the alternator had just been changed before I bought the coach... So it may not be the original
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On August 20, 2019 4:10:13 PM "TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
Robert,

You didn't answer my question. What terminal on the alternator is this
wire connected to???

John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> Hi John
> I sent a reply to this but I don't see it in the posts so I'm not sure if
> it got through .
>
> I have two wires on the alternator, the main output wire which goes to the
> center point on the isolator and a small gauge white wire that I do not
> know where it goes . I can see if there is 12 volts on the white wire .
> These are the only wires on the alternator . This coach has always had a
> drain on the coach batteries .
>
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
> On August 20, 2019 1:57:48 PM "TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]"
> wrote:
>> Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
>> John
>> '95 Serengeti
>>
>> On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
>> wrote:
>>> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
>>> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator.
>>> There
>>> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this
>>> voltage.
>>> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With
>>> many
>>> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed
>>> to
>>> be there or where you goes.
>>>
>>> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know
>>> there's
>>> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is
>>> something
>>> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
>>> appreciated. Thank you.
>>>
>>> Robert and Bev Lewis
>>> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
>>> 3126B Cat, 330hp
>>> MD3060 Allison
>>>
>>> https://safaritoonces.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Community email addresses:
>>> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
>>> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
>>> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>>> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>>>
>>> Shortcut URL to this page:
>>> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

'

[Robert Lewis]

' Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used. There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.

 Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
 https://safaritoonces.org




TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:

 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>

'

[W Taylor Hudson]

'Attachments :Robert, I presume the small white wire does not go inside the generator case but disappears into a wire loom?  Per the attached information found on another forum, that alternator has a built in regulator with internal voltage sensing like a “single wire” alternator I described earlier. In other words, it does not use a remote voltage sensing line. 
I may guess this is not your original alternator, but may have been used to replace an original alternator that used a regulator sensing wire.  If that is the case, you can insulate the end if the wire and abandon it in place. 
If this alternator was the original that came on the chassis, there are two additional (optional) wires that can connect to a black blockon it for a tachometer signal feed and a dash alternator light feed.  If your tachometer still works without it connected, and you have no “charge” lamp on your dash, I would ignore these two potential connections.  
Delco SI series alternator connection information follows;
       COMMON DELCO SI SERIES ALTERNATOR WIRING DIAGRAMby David Smith Sep 22, 2016 6 comments
 We are commonly asked how to wire the Delco SI series alternators upon maintenance or upgrading from an older generator. While this series of unit often runs as a self exciting one wire, agricultural applications also used 3 wire connections to the alternator. If you are looking for the no charge indicator light on the dash to function as well, this should help determine which connection to use.*This diagram shows the simple wiring diagram for negative ground Delco SI series alternators.*The ignition switch is most commonly powered from the starter battery stud, but source may vary depending on application. With key on power is then transferred through the no charge indicator light to the #1 spade on the alternator regulator connection. This connection acts as a ground allowing the no charge indicator light to work, until the alternator starts charging - the alternator will then push 12v+ back up towards the indicator light cancelling out the circuit and shutting the light off. Depending on switch circuitry there may also be a diode before the #1 spade to prevent the current when charging from back feeding the ignition switch and not allowing unit shut down.The #2 spade on the alternators regulator connection may be either powered full time, or may be wired to be on/off with ignition - either will work. For this diagram we are wiring it right back with the alternators output post which is BAT+ full time.The third spade connection in this diagram is optional and will not be present on all units. This is one of the three phase connections and is most commonly used to function electronic tachometers. This connection is not necessary for unit to function even if it is present.The main points to remember are both the #1 and #2 regulator connections are BAT+ with key on. The #1 regulator connection must be off with ignition off to prevent battery drain. Alternator ground connection is the casing, grounding back through bracketing and eventually through battery ground cable. Make sure all connections, including battery ground cable, are clean and tight.*This is a basic wiring guide and will not cover every application or scenario. Always use caution when modifying a system. While Smith Co Electric deems this information accurate, we are not liable for problems arising from use of this information.
Next Post          Hi Peter – the 240-210 should be agood replacement with the R terminalto operate the tach. You can view ithere: https://smithcoelectric.com/products/240- 210-new-alternator-for-delco-10si- type-116-3-wire-12v-72aPETER - APRIL 29, 2019
Can anyone recommend an alternator with AC tap to operate a tach.? I’m replacing a Delco Remy 12V unit that went under water from hurricane Florence; all identification numbers and ID plate are unreadable due to salt corrosion. Output should be about 60 amp.SMITH CO ELECTRIC - APRIL 12, 2019If not using a warning lamp, the #1 spade can be connected to ignition switched bat+. Just make sure it goes off with key off.
MATT - APRIL 12, 2019How are GM SI series alternators wired without a warning lamp?SMITH CO ELECTRIC - OCTOBER 31,2018It could be either, the tachometer is reading the speed of the alternator regardless of what type of engine is powering it.
RYAN - OCTOBER 31, 2018Blade three is used for the tachometer. Would you engine need to be a gas for the tachometer to work or can it work with a diesel?
v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018           

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:39 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used. There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.

 Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
 https://safaritoonces.org
[img]cid:16cb3437cc23081cc81[/img]

[img]cid:16cb3437cc22218c22d2[/img]

TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>

'

[TD]

'Robert,

It is possible that this mysterious white wire is the wire that runs
your engine hour meter. Usually the hour meter is connected to the oil
pressure switch, but I've seen on a few Safaris, the alternator output
being used for this purpose, which accomplishes the same function if a
diode based isolator is used.
Either way, like Taylor mentioned, it would be best to disconnect that
wire and isolate it.
If this wire does operate the hour meter, and you still want the meter
to function, you will need to connect it either to an oil pressure
switch or an ignition feed wire.

Also, be aware that the way your alternator is wired right now, you do
not have remote sensing. Being that you're converting to a solenoid
based isolator, this feature is not as critical. If you do decide that
you still want this feature, send me a direct email.

John
'95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3

On 8/20/19, robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:

> Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used.
> There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the
> foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is
> above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco
> Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the
> isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
>
> TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
>>
>> Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
>> John
>> '95 Serengeti
>>
>> On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
>> wrote:
>> > After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to
>> > the
>> > Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the
>> alternator. There
>> > is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this
>> voltage.
>> > It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time.
>> With many
>> > wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even
>> supposed to
>> > be there or where you goes.
>> >
>> > On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know
>> there's
>> > been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is
>> something
>> > that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
>> > appreciated. Thank you.
>> >
>> > Robert and Bev Lewis
>> > 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
>> > 3126B Cat, 330hp
>> > MD3060 Allison
>> >
>> > https://safaritoonces.org
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> > Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Community email addresses:
>> > Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
>> > Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
>> > Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> > List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>> >
>> > Shortcut URL to this page:
>> > http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

'

[Robert Lewis]

' Taylor

Yes, the white wire disappears into the loom and this is not the original altenator. The previous owners told me they had changed the unit.

If I understand this correctly, I short remove the white wire and isolate it from shorting anywhere.

I will check the tach and charge light (if it exists... I don't remember seeing that indicator).

Thank you for the help.

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org


W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 1:57 AM:

  Robert, I presume the small white wire does not go inside the generator case but disappears into a wire loom?  Per the attached information found on another forum, that alternator has a built in regulator with internal voltage sensing like a “single wire” alternator I described earlier. In other words, it does not use a remote voltage sensing line. 
I may guess this is not your original alternator, but may have been used to replace an original alternator that used a regulator sensing wire.  If that is the case, you can insulate the end if the wire and abandon it in place. 
If this alternator was the original that came on the chassis, there are two additional (optional) wires that can connect to a black blockon it for a tachometer signal feed and a dash alternator light feed.  If your tachometer still works without it connected, and you have no “charge” lamp on your dash, I would ignore these two potential connections.  
Delco SI series alternator connection information follows;
       COMMON DELCO SI SERIES ALTERNATOR WIRING DIAGRAMby David Smith Sep 22, 2016 6 comments
 We are commonly asked how to wire the Delco SI series alternators upon maintenance or upgrading from an older generator. While this series of unit often runs as a self exciting one wire, agricultural applications also used 3 wire connections to the alternator. If you are looking for the no charge indicator light on the dash to function as well, this should help determine which connection to use.*This diagram shows the simple wiring diagram for negative ground Delco SI series alternators.*The ignition switch is most commonly powered from the starter battery stud, but source may vary depending on application. With key on power is then transferred through the no charge indicator light to the #1 spade on the alternator regulator connection. This connection acts as a ground allowing the no charge indicator light to work, until the alternator starts charging - the alternator will then push 12v+ back up towards the indicator light cancelling out the circuit and shutting the light off. Depending on switch circuitry there may also be a diode before the #1 spade to prevent the current when charging from back feeding the ignition switch and not allowing unit shut down.The #2 spade on the alternators regulator connection may be either powered full time, or may be wired to be on/off with ignition - either will work. For this diagram we are wiring it right back with the alternators output post which is BAT+ full time.The third spade connection in this diagram is optional and will not be present on all units. This is one of the three phase connections and is most commonly used to function electronic tachometers. This connection is not necessary for unit to function even if it is present.The main points to remember are both the #1 and #2 regulator connections are BAT+ with key on. The #1 regulator connection must be off with ignition off to prevent battery drain. Alternator ground connection is the casing, grounding back through bracketing and eventually through battery ground cable. Make sure all connections, including battery ground cable, are clean and tight.*This is a basic wiring guide and will not cover every application or scenario. Always use caution when modifying a system. While Smith Co Electric deems this information accurate, we are not liable for problems arising from use of this information.
Next Post          Hi Peter – the 240-210 should be agood replacement with the R terminalto operate the tach. You can view ithere: https://smithcoelectric.com/products/240- 210-new-alternator-for-delco-10si- type-116-3-wire-12v-72aPETER - APRIL 29, 2019
Can anyone recommend an alternator with AC tap to operate a tach.? I’m replacing a Delco Remy 12V unit that went under water from hurricane Florence; all identification numbers and ID plate are unreadable due to salt corrosion. Output should be about 60 amp.SMITH CO ELECTRIC - APRIL 12, 2019If not using a warning lamp, the #1 spade can be connected to ignition switched bat+. Just make sure it goes off with key off.
MATT - APRIL 12, 2019How are GM SI series alternators wired without a warning lamp?SMITH CO ELECTRIC - OCTOBER 31,2018It could be either, the tachometer is reading the speed of the alternator regardless of what type of engine is powering it.
RYAN - OCTOBER 31, 2018Blade three is used for the tachometer. Would you engine need to be a gas for the tachometer to work or can it work with a diesel?
v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018           




On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:39 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used. There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.

 Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
 https://safaritoonces.org




TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>

'

[Robert Lewis]

' John,

I can find an hour meter for the engine, there is one for the generator but not the engine. This seems very needful, especially if there could be two meters, one that is resettable after maintenance. Where is yours located? I don't know if the was something stripped off the coach or it never had it to begin with. Do you have one that you would recommend?

If I understand this correctly, without the isolator there is no need for a remote sensing function because there is no voltage drop across the isolator diode. Is that correct? Is there any other reason that I should want remote sensing?

Thanks

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org


TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 9:30 AM:

 
Robert,

It is possible that this mysterious white wire is the wire that runs
your engine hour meter. Usually the hour meter is connected to the oil
pressure switch, but I've seen on a few Safaris, the alternator output
being used for this purpose, which accomplishes the same function if a
diode based isolator is used.
Either way, like Taylor mentioned, it would be best to disconnect that
wire and isolate it.
If this wire does operate the hour meter, and you still want the meter
to function, you will need to connect it either to an oil pressure
switch or an ignition feed wire.

Also, be aware that the way your alternator is wired right now, you do
not have remote sensing. Being that you're converting to a solenoid
based isolator, this feature is not as critical. If you do decide that
you still want this feature, send me a direct email.

John
'95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3

On 8/20/19, robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used.
> There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the
> foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is
> above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco
> Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the
> isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
>
> TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
>>
>> Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
>> John
>> '95 Serengeti
>>
>> On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
>> Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>> > After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to
>> > the
>> > Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the
>> alternator. There
>> > is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this
>> voltage.
>> > It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time.
>> With many
>> > wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even
>> supposed to
>> > be there or where you goes.
>> >
>> > On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know
>> there's
>> > been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is
>> something
>> > that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
>> > appreciated. Thank you.
>> >
>> > Robert and Bev Lewis
>> > 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
>> > 3126B Cat, 330hp
>> > MD3060 Allison
>> >
>> > https://safaritoonces.org
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> > Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Community email addresses:
>> > Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
>> > Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
>> > Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> > List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>> >
>> > Shortcut URL to this page:
>> > http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

'

[Robert Lewis]

' John

This email might appear twice, my email program just crashed sending the first one.

I can't find the engine meter; I have one for the gen set but not the main engine. I would like to have one, especially if there was one that had two counters, one that could be reset to track maintenance. Is there one you recommend?

I don't think I need the remote sensing because there is no diode drop from the isolator, is there any reason I should add it?

Thanks

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org


TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 9:30 AM:

 
Robert,

It is possible that this mysterious white wire is the wire that runs
your engine hour meter. Usually the hour meter is connected to the oil
pressure switch, but I've seen on a few Safaris, the alternator output
being used for this purpose, which accomplishes the same function if a
diode based isolator is used.
Either way, like Taylor mentioned, it would be best to disconnect that
wire and isolate it.
If this wire does operate the hour meter, and you still want the meter
to function, you will need to connect it either to an oil pressure
switch or an ignition feed wire.

Also, be aware that the way your alternator is wired right now, you do
not have remote sensing. Being that you're converting to a solenoid
based isolator, this feature is not as critical. If you do decide that
you still want this feature, send me a direct email.

John
'95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3

On 8/20/19, robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used.
> There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the
> foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is
> above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco
> Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the
> isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
>
> TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
>>
>> Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
>> John
>> '95 Serengeti
>>
>> On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
>> Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>> > After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to
>> > the
>> > Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the
>> alternator. There
>> > is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this
>> voltage.
>> > It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time.
>> With many
>> > wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even
>> supposed to
>> > be there or where you goes.
>> >
>> > On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know
>> there's
>> > been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is
>> something
>> > that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
>> > appreciated. Thank you.
>> >
>> > Robert and Bev Lewis
>> > 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
>> > 3126B Cat, 330hp
>> > MD3060 Allison
>> >
>> > https://safaritoonces.org
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> > Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Community email addresses:
>> > Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
>> > Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
>> > Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> > List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>> >
>> > Shortcut URL to this page:
>> > http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

'

[TD]

'Robert,

The hour meter should be located in your service bay.

There is still voltage loss because of long wiring runs, but it's
small compared to having a diode based isolator.

John
95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3

On 8/21/19, robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:

> John
>
> This email might appear twice, my email program just crashed sending the
> first one.
>
> I can't find the engine meter; I have one for the gen set but not the
> main engine. I would like to have one, especially if there was one that
> had two counters, one that could be reset to track maintenance. Is there
> one you recommend?
>
> I don't think I need the remote sensing because there is no diode drop
> from the isolator, is there any reason I should add it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 9:30 AM:
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> It is possible that this mysterious white wire is the wire that runs
>> your engine hour meter. Usually the hour meter is connected to the oil
>> pressure switch, but I've seen on a few Safaris, the alternator output
>> being used for this purpose, which accomplishes the same function if a
>> diode based isolator is used.
>> Either way, like Taylor mentioned, it would be best to disconnect that
>> wire and isolate it.
>> If this wire does operate the hour meter, and you still want the meter
>> to function, you will need to connect it either to an oil pressure
>> switch or an ignition feed wire.
>>
>> Also, be aware that the way your alternator is wired right now, you do
>> not have remote sensing. Being that you're converting to a solenoid
>> based isolator, this feature is not as critical. If you do decide that
>> you still want this feature, send me a direct email.
>>
>> John
>> '95 Serengeti Cummins 8.3
>>
>> On 8/20/19, robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
>> wrote:
>> > Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post
>> > used.
>> > There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the
>> > foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG)
>> > is
>> > above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco
>> > Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the
>> > isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as
>> above.
>> >
>> > Robert and Bev Lewis
>> > 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
>> > 3126B Cat, 330hp
>> > MD3060 Allison
>> > https://safaritoonces.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
>> >>
>> >> Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
>> >> John
>> >> '95 Serengeti
>> >>
>> >> On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to
>> >> > the
>> >> > Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the
>> >> alternator. There
>> >> > is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this
>> >> voltage.
>> >> > It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time.
>> >> With many
>> >> > wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even
>> >> supposed to
>> >> > be there or where you goes.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know
>> >> there's
>> >> > been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is
>> >> something
>> >> > that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would
>> >> > be
>> >> > appreciated. Thank you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Robert and Bev Lewis
>> >> > 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
>> >> > 3126B Cat, 330hp
>> >> > MD3060 Allison
>> >> >
>> >> > https://safaritoonces.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> > Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
>> >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Community email addresses:
>> >> > Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
>> >> > Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
>> >> > Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> >> > List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Shortcut URL to this page:
>> >> > http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
>> >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Yahoo Groups Links
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

'

[W Taylor Hudson]

'Attachments :Yes. I would disconnect and insulate the white wire and see if anything quits working.  
With a solenoid replacing the isolator, yes, their should no longer be a need for remote sensing. 
Most permanently installed generators have hour meters to keep up with servicing.  I have never seen a resettable one.  v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 2:07 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Taylor

Yes, the white wire disappears into the loom and this is not the original altenator. The previous owners told me they had changed the unit.

If I understand this correctly, I short remove the white wire and isolate it from shorting anywhere.

I will check the tach and charge light (if it exists... I don't remember seeing that indicator).

Thank you for the help.

Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison

https://safaritoonces.org



W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/21/2019 1:57 AM:
  Robert, I presume the small white wire does not go inside the generator case but disappears into a wire loom?  Per the attached information found on another forum, that alternator has a built in regulator with internal voltage sensing like a “single wire” alternator I described earlier. In other words, it does not use a remote voltage sensing line. 
I may guess this is not your original alternator, but may have been used to replace an original alternator that used a regulator sensing wire.  If that is the case, you can insulate the end if the wire and abandon it in place. 
If this alternator was the original that came on the chassis, there are two additional (optional) wires that can connect to a black blockon it for a tachometer signal feed and a dash alternator light feed.  If your tachometer still works without it connected, and you have no “charge” lamp on your dash, I would ignore these two potential connections.  
Delco SI series alternator connection information follows;
       COMMON DELCO SI SERIES ALTERNATOR WIRING DIAGRAMby David Smith Sep 22, 2016 6 comments
 We are commonly asked how to wire the Delco SI series alternators upon maintenance or upgrading from an older generator. While this series of unit often runs as a self exciting one wire, agricultural applications also used 3 wire connections to the alternator. If you are looking for the no charge indicator light on the dash to function as well, this should help determine which connection to use.*This diagram shows the simple wiring diagram for negative ground Delco SI series alternators.*The ignition switch is most commonly powered from the starter battery stud, but source may vary depending on application. With key on power is then transferred through the no charge indicator light to the #1 spade on the alternator regulator connection. This connection acts as a ground allowing the no charge indicator light to work, until the alternator starts charging - the alternator will then push 12v+ back up towards the indicator light cancelling out the circuit and shutting the light off. Depending on switch circuitry there may also be a diode before the #1 spade to prevent the current when charging from back feeding the ignition switch and not allowing unit shut down.The #2 spade on the alternators regulator connection may be either powered full time, or may be wired to be on/off with ignition - either will work. For this diagram we are wiring it right back with the alternators output post which is BAT+ full time.The third spade connection in this diagram is optional and will not be present on all units. This is one of the three phase connections and is most commonly used to function electronic tachometers. This connection is not necessary for unit to function even if it is present.The main points to remember are both the #1 and #2 regulator connections are BAT+ with key on. The #1 regulator connection must be off with ignition off to prevent battery drain. Alternator ground connection is the casing, grounding back through bracketing and eventually through battery ground cable. Make sure all connections, including battery ground cable, are clean and tight.*This is a basic wiring guide and will not cover every application or scenario. Always use caution when modifying a system. While Smith Co Electric deems this information accurate, we are not liable for problems arising from use of this information.
Next Post          Hi Peter – the 240-210 should be agood replacement with the R terminalto operate the tach. You can view ithere: https://smithcoelectric.com/products/240- 210-new-alternator-for-delco-10si- type-116-3-wire-12v-72aPETER - APRIL 29, 2019
Can anyone recommend an alternator with AC tap to operate a tach.? I’m replacing a Delco Remy 12V unit that went under water from hurricane Florence; all identification numbers and ID plate are unreadable due to salt corrosion. Output should be about 60 amp.SMITH CO ELECTRIC - APRIL 12, 2019If not using a warning lamp, the #1 spade can be connected to ignition switched bat+. Just make sure it goes off with key off.
MATT - APRIL 12, 2019How are GM SI series alternators wired without a warning lamp?SMITH CO ELECTRIC - OCTOBER 31,2018It could be either, the tachometer is reading the speed of the alternator regardless of what type of engine is powering it.
RYAN - OCTOBER 31, 2018Blade three is used for the tachometer. Would you engine need to be a gas for the tachometer to work or can it work with a diesel?
v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018           




On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:39 PM robert lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
  [Attachment(s) from robert lewis included below]
Here is a picture, the center post of the 3 posts is the only post used. There was a rubber grommet on the other two. The large wire in the foreground was on this center post, the small white wire (12- 14 AWG) is above the bolt and that also was on the post. The alternator is a Delco Remy 22SI according to the castings. I also include a picture of the isolator. The center cable is the cable going to the alternator as above.

 Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
 https://safaritoonces.org
[img]cid:16cb580490ade4b387b1[/img]

[img]cid:16cb580490ade4b387b2[/img]

TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends] wrote on 8/20/2019 1:57 PM:
 
Which terminal/stud of the alternator is this wire connected to???
John
'95 Serengeti

On 8/20/19, robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> After tracing the center wire on the isolator as expected it went to the
> Alternator, but what is an expected is there's 12v at the alternator. There
> is a white wire from the alternator that I think is carrying this voltage.
> It seems to me that this will drain the coach batteries over time. With many
> wiring mistakes on this coach I'm not sure if this wire is even supposed to
> be there or where you goes.
>
> On Jim's diagram there is no second wire from the alternator. I know there's
> been some discussion about a sense wire so I'm not sure if this is something
> that is supposed to be on this alternator or not. Any advice would be
> appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: robert.lewis.tl@...
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Safarifriends@onelist.com
> Subscribe: Safarifriends-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: Safarifriends-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: Safarifriends-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Safarifriends
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>

'