Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

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TD
Posts: 767
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:01 am

Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

Post by TD »

'Mel,

To further add to your memory bank, the two similar but different
Splendid washer/dryer combinations that you and Bill are talking about
are like apples and oranges, and you both are more or less correct on
the water consumption specs.
The reason Bills specs are higher, is he happened to have the VENTLESS
washer/dryer combo, and those units excrete more water by condensing
the water vapors that get removed out of the wet close, while the
vented units just blow the water vapors out to the outside via the
dryer vent. If I remember correctly, to add to the additional water
being drained out on the ventless units, they actually use additional
cold water to cool the hot moist air, using the additional water to
assist in the condensing process. This is likely part of the reason
why Bill tossed the unit. It is not practical in the RV application,
it was more designed for the European application where space is very
limited and the old buildings had very thick walls, so it was not
always practical or possible to vent the dryers. As Bill often says,
the DEVIL is in the details, and this time both y'all were correct.
Now everyone can sleep better tonight knowing that the specs can and
do vary between different washer/dryer units. ;-)

Mel, putting the spec discrepancy aside, if you look at the whole/big
picture of this conversation, you should get the gist of what Bill was
trying to say, ie, that the way Robert plumbed his washer/dryer runs a
high risk of having an ugly messy flood. One can be as careful as they
can ever be, but one good day, for what ever reason and/or
distraction, they will forget and WILL end up having an ugly smelly
flood. Even though it may be well intended, it is a foolish time bomb
waiting to happen.

Robert, forgive me for being blunt, but in all honesty, tying the
washer drain into the black water tank is a very bad idea, and
further, making an instructional presentation for others to do the
same, is down right poor judgment. I don't see why you could not have
sealed the gray hose in the existing/original washer drain pipe, in
the same fashion you sealed it in your presentation. This would avoid
a potential black tank disaster.
(please reconsider, and tie the drain into the gray water tank)

When your washer flooded, did you have the sewage drain cap open for
the water to drain out into the sewer dump drain???

Most often the floods happen by owners not reading/following
instructions, and attempt to use the washer with the drain cap
closed/not hooked up to the campground sewer system. This will cause
an instant flood, at least by the way SMC had the older coaches set
up. The good thing is the flood is of the clean type, meaning it is
not the black stuff that floods. In my humble opinion, SMC did it
correctly, the only other way it would be acceptable, in a sanitary
sense, to plumb the washer, is into the grey tank. This way, if it
does flood, it will not be a disgusting sanitary disaster like it
would be, if the black tank floods.

Also, your explanation does not seem to match the waste plumbing
diagram that you show in your presentation. In that diagram, it shows
that the washer drain exits after both black and gray gate valves.
Meaning that you have to be hooked up to the sewer line, and the
washer drains on its own, regardless whether the black and/or gray
gate valves are open. This is the way my system is plumbed, and the
same way a few other SMC built coaches I've seen, are plumbed.

I also recall you stating a while back, that most of your extensive
water damage, including the damage to the inverter happened because of
your skylight leak. You stated that the leak was so bad, that it was
actually filling up your waste tanks, so blaming the extensive damage
on one or two washer spills seems a bit misleading.


John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd


On 9/3/19, stuplich@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> bill
>
> I don't know what washer you are taking about but the Splendide
> washer/dryer in my coach uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a complete
> wash AND 3 rinses, (none of which have ever drained into either the gray or
> black tank waste water tanks.
> Mel
>
> '96 Sahara
>
>
>
> ---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
>
> To add to Mr. Lewis”s commentary,. It should be noted that the washer uses
> something near 40 gallons of water. Since the black tank to which Mr. Lewis
> directs his washer water only holds 50 gallons a problem could quickly
> develop. Can you imagine 12 or 15 gallons of sewage waste already in the
> tank. It makes far more sense to direct the water to the grey water tank.
> Since my 99 Continental is earlier the design is directed to the black water
> tank drain directly below the exit of the tank behind the blade valve and
> intended to be used only in a campground and drained as used. It can go to
> the grey tank if the blade valve is open. The only way it can get to the
> tank, or either one is to be forced backwards up the drain to either tank
> which is not what was intended. Frankly I suspect the remnant issues Mr.
> Lewis discovered may be from inept operation or from greater expectations
> rather than product design.
> Bill Edwards
> 1999Panther
>
>
>
>
>
>
'
Robert Lewis
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

Post by Robert Lewis »

' John
I think there is a misunderstanding on some key points of my presentation and design.
1. The water leaks I had were legion but I know exactly which leak caused which damage. There are 22 seal points on the roof, 21 leaked. I repaired every damage caused by each leak.a). The loss of the inverter, transfer switch and power reel were due entirely because of the washer dryer. This dumped gallons of water in a few minutes into the electricial bay due to the failed return drain through the Iint trap. This happened to the previous owners, I received the end result. This I know for a fact, I corrected these problems as I outlined.b). The Skylight leaks damaged the passenger sidewalls, bathroom floor and were seepage never gallons until I removed the old skylight and was an able to properly seal the hole. This may have contributed to the floor buckle near the end of the bed, but this leak did not damage the electronics. I never saw water in the electrical bay since I have owned the coach.
2. a). I think there's an error in understanding on the purpose of the discharge of the washer into the standpipe. The vertical connection from the standpipe to the stack is essential. This is the vent for water flow down the now closed Ioop standpipe. You cannot just seal the standpipe with the discharge without venting the stack. It won't work.
b). The black tank does not fill via the vent stack from the discharge of the washer , the primary path if the sewer gate is closed is back into the black tank by the large internal connection. There is no difference in operation by adding the stack vent to the discharge of the washer than was original implemented. The washer should normally be operated with the sewage gate open, but personally I will and have ran the washer deliberately into the black water tank to clean it.
I'll update the presentation if I was unclear on the vent stack purpose. I stand by these design changes as accomplishing exactly what their purpose was.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On September 4, 2019 2:31:35 PM "TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
Mel,

To further add to your memory bank, the two similar but different
Splendid washer/dryer combinations that you and Bill are talking about
are like apples and oranges, and you both are more or less correct on
the water consumption specs.
The reason Bills specs are higher, is he happened to have the VENTLESS
washer/dryer combo, and those units excrete more water by condensing
the water vapors that get removed out of the wet close, while the
vented units just blow the water vapors out to the outside via the
dryer vent. If I remember correctly, to add to the additional water
being drained out on the ventless units, they actually use additional
cold water to cool the hot moist air, using the additional water to
assist in the condensing process. This is likely part of the reason
why Bill tossed the unit. It is not practical in the RV application,
it was more designed for the European application where space is very
limited and the old buildings had very thick walls, so it was not
always practical or possible to vent the dryers. As Bill often says,
the DEVIL is in the details, and this time both y'all were correct.
Now everyone can sleep better tonight knowing that the specs can and
do vary between different washer/dryer units. ;-)

Mel, putting the spec discrepancy aside, if you look at the whole/big
picture of this conversation, you should get the gist of what Bill was
trying to say, ie, that the way Robert plumbed his washer/dryer runs a
high risk of having an ugly messy flood. One can be as careful as they
can ever be, but one good day, for what ever reason and/or
distraction, they will forget and WILL end up having an ugly smelly
flood. Even though it may be well intended, it is a foolish time bomb
waiting to happen.

Robert, forgive me for being blunt, but in all honesty, tying the
washer drain into the black water tank is a very bad idea, and
further, making an instructional presentation for others to do the
same, is down right poor judgment. I don't see why you could not have
sealed the gray hose in the existing/original washer drain pipe, in
the same fashion you sealed it in your presentation. This would avoid
a potential black tank disaster.
(please reconsider, and tie the drain into the gray water tank)

When your washer flooded, did you have the sewage drain cap open for
the water to drain out into the sewer dump drain???

Most often the floods happen by owners not reading/following
instructions, and attempt to use the washer with the drain cap
closed/not hooked up to the campground sewer system. This will cause
an instant flood, at least by the way SMC had the older coaches set
up. The good thing is the flood is of the clean type, meaning it is
not the black stuff that floods. In my humble opinion, SMC did it
correctly, the only other way it would be acceptable, in a sanitary
sense, to plumb the washer, is into the grey tank. This way, if it
does flood, it will not be a disgusting sanitary disaster like it
would be, if the black tank floods.

Also, your explanation does not seem to match the waste plumbing
diagram that you show in your presentation. In that diagram, it shows
that the washer drain exits after both black and gray gate valves.
Meaning that you have to be hooked up to the sewer line, and the
washer drains on its own, regardless whether the black and/or gray
gate valves are open. This is the way my system is plumbed, and the
same way a few other SMC built coaches I've seen, are plumbed.

I also recall you stating a while back, that most of your extensive
water damage, including the damage to the inverter happened because of
your skylight leak. You stated that the leak was so bad, that it was
actually filling up your waste tanks, so blaming the extensive damage
on one or two washer spills seems a bit misleading.

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd

On 9/3/19, stuplich@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> bill
>
> I don't know what washer you are taking about but the Splendide
> washer/dryer in my coach uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a complete
> wash AND 3 rinses, (none of which have ever drained into either the gray or
> black tank waste water tanks.
> Mel
>
> '96 Sahara
>
>
>
> ---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
>
> To add to Mr. Lewis”s commentary,. It should be noted that the washer uses
> something near 40 gallons of water. Since the black tank to which Mr. Lewis
> directs his washer water only holds 50 gallons a problem could quickly
> develop. Can you imagine 12 or 15 gallons of sewage waste already in the
> tank. It makes far more sense to direct the water to the grey water tank.
> Since my 99 Continental is earlier the design is directed to the black water
> tank drain directly below the exit of the tank behind the blade valve and
> intended to be used only in a campground and drained as used. It can go to
> the grey tank if the blade valve is open. The only way it can get to the
> tank, or either one is to be forced backwards up the drain to either tank
> which is not what was intended. Frankly I suspect the remnant issues Mr.
> Lewis discovered may be from inept operation or from greater expectations
> rather than product design.
> Bill Edwards
> 1999Panther
>
>
>
>
>
>

'
TD
Posts: 767
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:01 am

Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

Post by TD »

'Robert,

Can you please provide some photos of the waste plumbing were your
black and gray gate valves tie into the 3 inch sewage line that the
sewer hose hooks up to?

If you could also provide a photo of the same are you took of the P
trap (down below where the drawer is placed), but after the changes
that you made (after the P trap was removed)? The amount of vertical
pipes down below does not seem to match up with the vertical pipes up
above, which adds to the confusion.

Does your coach have the black tank rinse option?

How many sewage vents do you have on top of your roof?
I have three, one each, for black, gray and washer...

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd

On 9/4/19, Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> John
>
> I think there is a misunderstanding on some key points of my presentation
> and design.
>
> 1. The water leaks I had were legion but I know exactly which leak caused
> which damage. There are 22 seal points on the roof, 21 leaked. I repaired
> every damage caused by each leak.
> a). The loss of the inverter, transfer switch and power reel were due
> entirely because of the washer dryer. This dumped gallons of water in a few
>
> minutes into the electricial bay due to the failed return drain through the
>
> Iint trap. This happened to the previous owners, I received the end result.
>
> This I know for a fact, I corrected these problems as I outlined.
> b). The Skylight leaks damaged the passenger sidewalls, bathroom floor and
> were seepage never gallons until I removed the old skylight and was an able
>
> to properly seal the hole. This may have contributed to the floor buckle
> near the end of the bed, but this leak did not damage the electronics. I
> never saw water in the electrical bay since I have owned the coach.
>
> 2.
> a). I think there's an error in understanding on the purpose of the
> discharge of the washer into the standpipe. The vertical connection from
> the standpipe to the stack is essential. This is the vent for water flow
> down the now closed Ioop standpipe. You cannot just seal the standpipe with
>
> the discharge without venting the stack. It won't work.
>
> b). The black tank does not fill via the vent stack from the discharge of
> the washer , the primary path if the sewer gate is closed is back into the
> black tank by the large internal connection. There is no difference in
> operation by adding the stack vent to the discharge of the washer than was
> original implemented. The washer should normally be operated with the
> sewage gate open, but personally I will and have ran the washer
> deliberately into the black water tank to clean it.
>
> I'll update the presentation if I was unclear on the vent stack purpose. I
> stand by these design changes as accomplishing exactly what their purpose
> was.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
> On September 4, 2019 2:31:35 PM "TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]"
> wrote:
>> Mel,
>>
>> To further add to your memory bank, the two similar but different
>> Splendid washer/dryer combinations that you and Bill are talking about
>> are like apples and oranges, and you both are more or less correct on
>> the water consumption specs.
>> The reason Bills specs are higher, is he happened to have the VENTLESS
>> washer/dryer combo, and those units excrete more water by condensing
>> the water vapors that get removed out of the wet close, while the
>> vented units just blow the water vapors out to the outside via the
>> dryer vent. If I remember correctly, to add to the additional water
>> being drained out on the ventless units, they actually use additional
>> cold water to cool the hot moist air, using the additional water to
>> assist in the condensing process. This is likely part of the reason
>> why Bill tossed the unit. It is not practical in the RV application,
>> it was more designed for the European application where space is very
>> limited and the old buildings had very thick walls, so it was not
>> always practical or possible to vent the dryers. As Bill often says,
>> the DEVIL is in the details, and this time both y'all were correct.
>> Now everyone can sleep better tonight knowing that the specs can and
>> do vary between different washer/dryer units. ;-)
>>
>> Mel, putting the spec discrepancy aside, if you look at the whole/big
>> picture of this conversation, you should get the gist of what Bill was
>> trying to say, ie, that the way Robert plumbed his washer/dryer runs a
>> high risk of having an ugly messy flood. One can be as careful as they
>> can ever be, but one good day, for what ever reason and/or
>> distraction, they will forget and WILL end up having an ugly smelly
>> flood. Even though it may be well intended, it is a foolish time bomb
>> waiting to happen.
>>
>> Robert, forgive me for being blunt, but in all honesty, tying the
>> washer drain into the black water tank is a very bad idea, and
>> further, making an instructional presentation for others to do the
>> same, is down right poor judgment. I don't see why you could not have
>> sealed the gray hose in the existing/original washer drain pipe, in
>> the same fashion you sealed it in your presentation. This would avoid
>> a potential black tank disaster.
>> (please reconsider, and tie the drain into the gray water tank)
>>
>> When your washer flooded, did you have the sewage drain cap open for
>> the water to drain out into the sewer dump drain???
>>
>> Most often the floods happen by owners not reading/following
>> instructions, and attempt to use the washer with the drain cap
>> closed/not hooked up to the campground sewer system. This will cause
>> an instant flood, at least by the way SMC had the older coaches set
>> up. The good thing is the flood is of the clean type, meaning it is
>> not the black stuff that floods. In my humble opinion, SMC did it
>> correctly, the only other way it would be acceptable, in a sanitary
>> sense, to plumb the washer, is into the grey tank. This way, if it
>> does flood, it will not be a disgusting sanitary disaster like it
>> would be, if the black tank floods.
>>
>> Also, your explanation does not seem to match the waste plumbing
>> diagram that you show in your presentation. In that diagram, it shows
>> that the washer drain exits after both black and gray gate valves.
>> Meaning that you have to be hooked up to the sewer line, and the
>> washer drains on its own, regardless whether the black and/or gray
>> gate valves are open. This is the way my system is plumbed, and the
>> same way a few other SMC built coaches I've seen, are plumbed.
>>
>> I also recall you stating a while back, that most of your extensive
>> water damage, including the damage to the inverter happened because of
>> your skylight leak. You stated that the leak was so bad, that it was
>> actually filling up your waste tanks, so blaming the extensive damage
>> on one or two washer spills seems a bit misleading.
>>
>> John
>> '95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
>> 6spd
>>
>> On 9/3/19, stuplich@... [Safarifriends]
>> wrote:
>>> bill
>>>
>>> I don't know what washer you are taking about but the Splendide
>>> washer/dryer in my coach uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a
>>> complete
>>> wash AND 3 rinses, (none of which have ever drained into either the gray
>>> or
>>> black tank waste water tanks.
>>> Mel
>>>
>>> '96 Sahara
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
>>>
>>> To add to Mr. Lewis”s commentary,. It should be noted that the washer
>>> uses
>>> something near 40 gallons of water. Since the black tank to which Mr.
>>> Lewis
>>> directs his washer water only holds 50 gallons a problem could quickly
>>> develop. Can you imagine 12 or 15 gallons of sewage waste already in the
>>> tank. It makes far more sense to direct the water to the grey water
>>> tank.
>>> Since my 99 Continental is earlier the design is directed to the black
>>> water
>>> tank drain directly below the exit of the tank behind the blade valve
>>> and
>>> intended to be used only in a campground and drained as used. It can go
>>> to
>>> the grey tank if the blade valve is open. The only way it can get to the
>>> tank, or either one is to be forced backwards up the drain to either
>>> tank
>>> which is not what was intended. Frankly I suspect the remnant issues Mr.
>>> Lewis discovered may be from inept operation or from greater
>>> expectations
>>> rather than product design.
>>> Bill Edwards
>>> 1999Panther
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
'
Robert Lewis
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

Post by Robert Lewis »

' John
I have two vents, one vent on the drivers side for the black water (assumption because the toilet is right there), and one on the passenger side which I assume is the grey water vent for the shower and lavatory sink. I do not know how the kitchen sink is vented because it is on the drivers side.
I didn't remove the P trap. The standpipe connects to the P trap and was its tap was open, the washer flexible discharge hose was pushed down the open stand pipe above the P trap. Therefore it was unsealed and soap and water could overflow when the washer was draining. Mostly soap foam was what I observered  by stains on the wood.
I can't get any other pictures than those in the video because the wall is closed up now. The standpipe and P trap is on the left, the 1 1/2" stack vent is on the far right in the pictures.
If you have trouble seeing these in the presentation I can send you a link to the HD pictures. But I will have to upload them to my Amazon S3 account in the morning.
Robert
On September 4, 2019 8:19:55 PM "TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
Robert,

Can you please provide some photos of the waste plumbing were your
black and gray gate valves tie into the 3 inch sewage line that the
sewer hose hooks up to?

If you could also provide a photo of the same are you took of the P
trap (down below where the drawer is placed), but after the changes
that you made (after the P trap was removed)? The amount of vertical
pipes down below does not seem to match up with the vertical pipes up
above, which adds to the confusion.

Does your coach have the black tank rinse option?

How many sewage vents do you have on top of your roof?
I have three, one each, for black, gray and washer...

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd

On 9/4/19, Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> John
>
> I think there is a misunderstanding on some key points of my presentation
> and design.
>
> 1. The water leaks I had were legion but I know exactly which leak caused
> which damage. There are 22 seal points on the roof, 21 leaked. I repaired
> every damage caused by each leak.
> a). The loss of the inverter, transfer switch and power reel were due
> entirely because of the washer dryer. This dumped gallons of water in a few
>
> minutes into the electricial bay due to the failed return drain through the
>
> Iint trap. This happened to the previous owners, I received the end result.
>
> This I know for a fact, I corrected these problems as I outlined.
> b). The Skylight leaks damaged the passenger sidewalls, bathroom floor and
> were seepage never gallons until I removed the old skylight and was an able
>
> to properly seal the hole. This may have contributed to the floor buckle
> near the end of the bed, but this leak did not damage the electronics. I
> never saw water in the electrical bay since I have owned the coach.
>
> 2.
> a). I think there's an error in understanding on the purpose of the
> discharge of the washer into the standpipe. The vertical connection from
> the standpipe to the stack is essential. This is the vent for water flow
> down the now closed Ioop standpipe. You cannot just seal the standpipe with
>
> the discharge without venting the stack. It won't work.
>
> b). The black tank does not fill via the vent stack from the discharge of
> the washer , the primary path if the sewer gate is closed is back into the
> black tank by the large internal connection. There is no difference in
> operation by adding the stack vent to the discharge of the washer than was
> original implemented. The washer should normally be operated with the
> sewage gate open, but personally I will and have ran the washer
> deliberately into the black water tank to clean it.
>
> I'll update the presentation if I was unclear on the vent stack purpose. I
> stand by these design changes as accomplishing exactly what their purpose
> was.
>
> Robert and Bev Lewis
> 2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
> 3126B Cat, 330hp
> MD3060 Allison
>
> https://safaritoonces.org
>
>
>
> On September 4, 2019 2:31:35 PM "TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]"
> wrote:
>> Mel,
>>
>> To further add to your memory bank, the two similar but different
>> Splendid washer/dryer combinations that you and Bill are talking about
>> are like apples and oranges, and you both are more or less correct on
>> the water consumption specs.
>> The reason Bills specs are higher, is he happened to have the VENTLESS
>> washer/dryer combo, and those units excrete more water by condensing
>> the water vapors that get removed out of the wet close, while the
>> vented units just blow the water vapors out to the outside via the
>> dryer vent. If I remember correctly, to add to the additional water
>> being drained out on the ventless units, they actually use additional
>> cold water to cool the hot moist air, using the additional water to
>> assist in the condensing process. This is likely part of the reason
>> why Bill tossed the unit. It is not practical in the RV application,
>> it was more designed for the European application where space is very
>> limited and the old buildings had very thick walls, so it was not
>> always practical or possible to vent the dryers. As Bill often says,
>> the DEVIL is in the details, and this time both y'all were correct.
>> Now everyone can sleep better tonight knowing that the specs can and
>> do vary between different washer/dryer units. ;-)
>>
>> Mel, putting the spec discrepancy aside, if you look at the whole/big
>> picture of this conversation, you should get the gist of what Bill was
>> trying to say, ie, that the way Robert plumbed his washer/dryer runs a
>> high risk of having an ugly messy flood. One can be as careful as they
>> can ever be, but one good day, for what ever reason and/or
>> distraction, they will forget and WILL end up having an ugly smelly
>> flood. Even though it may be well intended, it is a foolish time bomb
>> waiting to happen.
>>
>> Robert, forgive me for being blunt, but in all honesty, tying the
>> washer drain into the black water tank is a very bad idea, and
>> further, making an instructional presentation for others to do the
>> same, is down right poor judgment. I don't see why you could not have
>> sealed the gray hose in the existing/original washer drain pipe, in
>> the same fashion you sealed it in your presentation. This would avoid
>> a potential black tank disaster.
>> (please reconsider, and tie the drain into the gray water tank)
>>
>> When your washer flooded, did you have the sewage drain cap open for
>> the water to drain out into the sewer dump drain???
>>
>> Most often the floods happen by owners not reading/following
>> instructions, and attempt to use the washer with the drain cap
>> closed/not hooked up to the campground sewer system. This will cause
>> an instant flood, at least by the way SMC had the older coaches set
>> up. The good thing is the flood is of the clean type, meaning it is
>> not the black stuff that floods. In my humble opinion, SMC did it
>> correctly, the only other way it would be acceptable, in a sanitary
>> sense, to plumb the washer, is into the grey tank. This way, if it
>> does flood, it will not be a disgusting sanitary disaster like it
>> would be, if the black tank floods.
>>
>> Also, your explanation does not seem to match the waste plumbing
>> diagram that you show in your presentation. In that diagram, it shows
>> that the washer drain exits after both black and gray gate valves.
>> Meaning that you have to be hooked up to the sewer line, and the
>> washer drains on its own, regardless whether the black and/or gray
>> gate valves are open. This is the way my system is plumbed, and the
>> same way a few other SMC built coaches I've seen, are plumbed.
>>
>> I also recall you stating a while back, that most of your extensive
>> water damage, including the damage to the inverter happened because of
>> your skylight leak. You stated that the leak was so bad, that it was
>> actually filling up your waste tanks, so blaming the extensive damage
>> on one or two washer spills seems a bit misleading.
>>
>> John
>> '95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
>> 6spd
>>
>> On 9/3/19, stuplich@... [Safarifriends]
>> wrote:
>>> bill
>>>
>>> I don't know what washer you are taking about but the Splendide
>>> washer/dryer in my coach uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a
>>> complete
>>> wash AND 3 rinses, (none of which have ever drained into either the gray
>>> or
>>> black tank waste water tanks.
>>> Mel
>>>
>>> '96 Sahara
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
>>>
>>> To add to Mr. Lewis”s commentary,. It should be noted that the washer
>>> uses
>>> something near 40 gallons of water. Since the black tank to which Mr.
>>> Lewis
>>> directs his washer water only holds 50 gallons a problem could quickly
>>> develop. Can you imagine 12 or 15 gallons of sewage waste already in the
>>> tank. It makes far more sense to direct the water to the grey water
>>> tank.
>>> Since my 99 Continental is earlier the design is directed to the black
>>> water
>>> tank drain directly below the exit of the tank behind the blade valve
>>> and
>>> intended to be used only in a campground and drained as used. It can go
>>> to
>>> the grey tank if the blade valve is open. The only way it can get to the
>>> tank, or either one is to be forced backwards up the drain to either
>>> tank
>>> which is not what was intended. Frankly I suspect the remnant issues Mr.
>>> Lewis discovered may be from inept operation or from greater
>>> expectations
>>> rather than product design.
>>> Bill Edwards
>>> 1999Panther
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

'
mel96safari
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:06 am

Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

Post by mel96safari »

'John 
IMO the reason Bills spec is higher, (aka: WRONG) is because he MADE IT UP.
Bill wrote, in message 42947, "I could be off on the water volume since I have not used one of them".
In other words he offered up advice based on a fact that he made up..... (a "fact" that he incorrectly 'invented", not a "fact; that he incorrectly "remembered").
BTW as you can see, by his "Egads Mel" reply to me, (see the 2nd message below), Bill was apparently offend by my post which questioned what washer he was talking about, followed by the FACT that my Splendide uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a wash and 3 rinses. (I know that "fact" because I always use a 15 gallon Blue Boy when doing laundry in campsites with NO sewer connection):
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Gallon Tote Along RV Portable RV Waste Tank

Mel'96 Safari


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Mel,

To further add to your memory bank, the two similar but different
Splendid washer/dryer combinations that you and Bill are talking about
are like apples and oranges, and you both are more or less correct on
the water consumption specs.
The reason Bills specs are higher, is he happened to have the VENTLESS
washer/dryer combo, and those units excrete more water by condensing
the water vapors that get removed out of the wet close, while the
vented units just blow the water vapors out to the outside via the
dryer vent. If I remember correctly, to add to the additional water
being drained out on the ventless units, they actually use additional
cold water to cool the hot moist air, using the additional water to
assist in the condensing process.

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd
---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Egads Mel I did not say they did and technically you are right and certainly I could be off on the water volume since I have not used one of them. Only working with a memory that at this point in time is not as sharpe as yours. Never professed to being correct on everything I have offered up. While you are at it jump on Lewis too...he brought it all up in the first place not me. Thanks for makin sure I will be correct next time!
Bill Edwards1999 Panther

On 9/3/19, stuplich@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> bill
>
> I don't know what washer you are taking about but the Splendide
> washer/dryer in my coach uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a complete
> wash AND 3 rinses, (none of which have ever drained into either the gray or
> black tank waste water tanks.
> Mel
>
> '96 Sahara


'
Robert Lewis
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: A Poop Disaster in the making [was] Washer Dryer - Problems and

Post by Robert Lewis »

' With out prejudice, as the lawyers say:
I think we are loosing perspective here. I know Bill goes out of his way to help anyone who asks. The purpose of his message I believe was to alert people to a possible disaster. 
During testing of my washer as per my presentation, I nearly ran the system over through the toilet. I was testing partial loads, rinse cycles at home without a sewer connection and happened to notice the toilet level was 1" from overflowing. So... full, not full, 15 ... 50 gals is not the issue, ... how do you clear that mess once it runs under the rug, flooring, cupboards and bays? Without speaking for Bill, I think his main point is to be aware... as is Johns. 
I appreciate Mel and John's attention to detail, this has served everyone well. From my perspective and perhaps others, too much conflict can be a disincentive to extend the extra effort required to share information. It takes about 4-6 hrs to assemble, produce and integrate one presentation into the website and then post the result. My goal is, as I think as others also have, is to help.
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org


On September 5, 2019 9:21:02 AM "stuplich@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
John 
IMO the reason Bills spec is higher, (aka: WRONG) is because he MADE IT UP.
Bill wrote, in message 42947, "I could be off on the water volume since I have not used one of them".
In other words he offered up advice based on a fact that he made up..... (a "fact" that he incorrectly 'invented", not a "fact; that he incorrectly "remembered").
BTW as you can see, by his "Egads Mel" reply to me, (see the 2nd message below), Bill was apparently offend by my post which questioned what washer he was talking about, followed by the FACT that my Splendide uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a wash and 3 rinses. (I know that "fact" because I always use a 15 gallon Blue Boy when doing laundry in campsites with NO sewer connection):
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Gallon Tote Along RV Portable RV Waste Tank

Mel'96 Safari


---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Mel,

To further add to your memory bank, the two similar but different
Splendid washer/dryer combinations that you and Bill are talking about
are like apples and oranges, and you both are more or less correct on
the water consumption specs.
The reason Bills specs are higher, is he happened to have the VENTLESS
washer/dryer combo, and those units excrete more water by condensing
the water vapors that get removed out of the wet close, while the
vented units just blow the water vapors out to the outside via the
dryer vent. If I remember correctly, to add to the additional water
being drained out on the ventless units, they actually use additional
cold water to cool the hot moist air, using the additional water to
assist in the condensing process.

John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, Cummins C8.3-300, Allison
6spd
---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Egads Mel I did not say they did and technically you are right and certainly I could be off on the water volume since I have not used one of them. Only working with a memory that at this point in time is not as sharpe as yours. Never professed to being correct on everything I have offered up. While you are at it jump on Lewis too...he brought it all up in the first place not me. Thanks for makin sure I will be correct next time!
Bill Edwards1999 Panther

On 9/3/19, stuplich@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> bill
>
> I don't know what washer you are taking about but the Splendide
> washer/dryer in my coach uses less than 15 gallons of water to do a complete
> wash AND 3 rinses, (none of which have ever drained into either the gray or
> black tank waste water tanks.
> Mel
>
> '96 Sahara



'
Locked