Re: Stainless steel bolts/screws etc. (was: tighten water pump belt)

W Taylor Hudson · Post by **W Taylor Hudson** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:03 am

'Robert,a) if the tensioner, belt, and related components are presently properly functioning and in good shape, I personally would not kick that sleeping dog. I would hit the bolts with penetrating oil whenever in the area for future good (future) measure.
b) except as a teenager I have never put food on my table with my wrench turning efforts. Afraid I have no experience with using the blue tip wrench.
c) I am aware the Triton V10 engines have had their share of exhaust manifold stud challenges. Again, if my manifold was not leaking, I would not mess with 20 year old bolts for the fun of it. In the unlikely event the manifold bolts are not in blind holes, I would occasionally squirt the backside of the block casting to hit the inner end of the bolts for future fun. d) there is copper based anti seize lubricant in the parts stores recommended for high temperature applications, including exhaust manifolds.v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Taylor, good advice on the bolt grade. I am going to start puting penetrating oil on every few days. Would it be of use to take a torch and heat the bolts a few times, put penetrating oil on after they are cool. I can see this bolt shearing off at the worst possible time... as seems to be the usual case.
I know John had a couple of manifold bolts break like that while on the road and it was expensive. Would changing these to a higher grade be a good idea as well? Would the no seize work in a high temp area?
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On October 5, 2019 7:38:25 AM "W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:
Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!
Regarding this topic, a) has anyone noticed what grade bolts come in this application?
b) has anyone reinstalled grade 8 bolts or better regardless of what comes with the new tensioner.
c) has anyone presoaked these bolts for a few days in a penetrating oil before wringing them off?
d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).
Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.
Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat

'

Bill Edwards · Post by **Bill Edwards** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:01 am

' Trick to removing frozen bolts. via Dave Atherton....drill medium sized hole in bolt and then mig weld the hole backup. redrilll hole bolt comes right out. reson as it cooled on its own it shrank in size. re tap hole and reassemble...I know some bolts not accessible that is a given and most of you do not have a mig welder...why not? Todaay very affordable...i know I am being funny...right Just trying to be ahead of the comments
Bill Edwards1999 Panther

On Saturday, October 5, 2019, 09:23:45 AM MDT, Bill Edwards billedwardsrs@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Taylor,
Cat has their own grade of bolt system by their engineers so do not know how that relates...so I am told. I have pulled many bolts on the Z and not a one has ever broken and can thankfully say the same is happening on the Panther. When I do assembly work I always use anti-seize and all grade 8 bolts and generally torqued to spec.
Bill Edwards1999Panther On Saturday, October 5, 2019, 08:38:25 AM MDT, W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!
Regarding this topic, a) has anyone noticed what grade bolts come in this application?
b) has anyone reinstalled grade 8 bolts or better regardless of what comes with the new tensioner.
c) has anyone presoaked these bolts for a few days in a penetrating oil before wringing them off?
d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).
Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.
Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat
'

lotosrggp1 · Post by **lotosrggp1** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:48 am

'Regarding lubricating bolts, it will change torque applied: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-lubrication-effects-d_1693.html
And I hope you use appropriate hose clamps for the silicon hose ( wrong size but you get the idea): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QSNVOFS/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=ABSLB7XHZ8EF1&psc=1
Tom
97 Sahara 3550'

RP Sunrise · Post by **RP Sunrise** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:50 am

' A lot of good suggestions here. The trick is when you are removing a bolt, when does it break free or break? Hindsight tells us we should have soaked it with PB or other or heated the casting with a torch. Heat works wonders. And there are times where the bolt has lost it's integrity over time and is ready to fail no matter what. The point I wanted to make is that on the cat 3126 there should be a second hole in the mounting you may be able to use.
If we had hindsight or could travel back in time I am sure there are many things we would do different.
Bob 99 Zanzibar

From: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Bill Edwards billedwardsrs@... [Safarifriends]
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 4:01 PM
To: W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]
Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] tighten water pump belt Trick to removing frozen bolts. via Dave Atherton....drill medium sized hole in bolt and then mig weld the hole backup. redrilll hole bolt comes right out. reson as it cooled on its own it shrank in size. re tap hole and reassemble...I know some bolts not accessible that is a given and most of you do not have a mig welder...why not? Todaay very affordable...i know I am being funny...right Just trying to be ahead of the comments
Bill Edwards 1999 Panther

On Saturday, October 5, 2019, 09:23:45 AM MDT, Bill Edwards billedwardsrs@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Taylor,
Cat has their own grade of bolt system by their engineers so do not know how that relates...so I am told. I have pulled many bolts on the Z and not a one has ever broken and can thankfully say the same is happening on the Panther. When I do assembly work I always use anti-seize and all grade 8 bolts and generally torqued to spec.
Bill Edwards 1999Panther On Saturday, October 5, 2019, 08:38:25 AM MDT, W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!
Regarding this topic, a) has anyone noticed what grade bolts come in this application?
b) has anyone reinstalled grade 8 bolts or better regardless of what comes with the new tensioner.
c) has anyone presoaked these bolts for a few days in a penetrating oil before wringing them off?
d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).
Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r,
Taylor Hudson ‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126 acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.
Bob 96 Serengeti 3126 Cat

'

Robert Lewis · Post by **Robert Lewis** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:26 pm

' Thanks Taylor
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On October 5, 2019 12:03:17 PM "W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:
Robert,a) if the tensioner, belt, and related components are presently properly functioning and in good shape, I personally would not kick that sleeping dog. I would hit the bolts with penetrating oil whenever in the area for future good (future) measure.
b) except as a teenager I have never put food on my table with my wrench turning efforts. Afraid I have no experience with using the blue tip wrench.
c) I am aware the Triton V10 engines have had their share of exhaust manifold stud challenges. Again, if my manifold was not leaking, I would not mess with 20 year old bolts for the fun of it. In the unlikely event the manifold bolts are not in blind holes, I would occasionally squirt the backside of the block casting to hit the inner end of the bolts for future fun. d) there is copper based anti seize lubricant in the parts stores recommended for high temperature applications, including exhaust manifolds.v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM Robert Lewis robert.lewis.tl@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Taylor, good advice on the bolt grade. I am going to start puting penetrating oil on every few days. Would it be of use to take a torch and heat the bolts a few times, put penetrating oil on after they are cool. I can see this bolt shearing off at the worst possible time... as seems to be the usual case.
I know John had a couple of manifold bolts break like that while on the road and it was expensive. Would changing these to a higher grade be a good idea as well? Would the no seize work in a high temp area?
Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org

On October 5, 2019 7:38:25 AM "W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:
Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!
Regarding this topic, a) has anyone noticed what grade bolts come in this application?
b) has anyone reinstalled grade 8 bolts or better regardless of what comes with the new tensioner.
c) has anyone presoaked these bolts for a few days in a penetrating oil before wringing them off?
d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).
Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.
Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat

'

fountking · Post by **fountking** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:26 pm

'https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/ideal-smartseal-hose-clamp-size-28-all-stainless-steel-spring-clamps-provides-compensation-over-360-degrees-372150028058/11854977-P?searchTerm=Hose+clamps

I used these on my silicone radiator hoses easy to find at Advance Auto
Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat'

mel96safari · Post by **mel96safari** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:56 am

'Is it wrong to use stainless steel bolts as replacements?
Mel'96 Sahara

---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r/Taylor Hudson‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat

'

James Exler · Post by **James Exler** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:12 am

'

Mel,

Stainless is not as strong as grade 8 steel. There are also many grades of stainless so be careful.

The average yield (point where the material shows a permanent deformation) of stainless is about 65k psi where grade 8 is 130k psi.

Jim Exler, Nampa, ID

On 10/6/2019 9:56 AM, stuplich@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Is it wrong to use stainless steel bolts as replacements?

Mel
'96 Sahara

---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, fpengr@... wrote :

Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!

d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only
ones I have to remove).
Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys.
v/r/
Taylor Hudson
‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126
acquired 2018

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM
fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts
as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.
Bob 96 Serengeti
3126 Cat

Virus-free.
www.avg.com

'

W Taylor Hudson · Post by **W Taylor Hudson** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:17 am

'If we were in a marine environment where corrosion concerns may over ride ultimate strength, probably yes. But grade 8 carbon steel threaded fasteners are usually stronger than stainless. So no in this application. v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 11:59 AM stuplich@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Is it wrong to use stainless steel bolts as replacements?
Mel'96 Sahara

---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r/Taylor Hudson‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat

'

burch1945 · Post by **burch1945** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:02 am

'Just my 2 cents worth. I always use stainless, inside or outside. Unless the application calls for a grade 8 bolt. In that case there is no stainless equal in strength to grade 8 as for as I know. Someone also commented that there are many grades of stainless steel material. Yes there are and some of them are low strength applications. so you do indeed need to be careful. I normally stick with 304, 316 or 316L.
Joe Burch, 1996 Sahara3126 catSt augustine fl

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S8.
-------- Original message --------From: "W Taylor Hudson fpengr@... [Safarifriends]" Date: 10/6/19 12:17 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Stainless steel bolts/screws etc. (was: tighten water pump belt)

If we were in a marine environment where corrosion concerns may over ride ultimate strength, probably yes. But grade 8 carbon steel threaded fasteners are usually stronger than stainless. So no in this application. v/r,
Taylor Hudson‘98 Safari Serengeti (4060), CAT 3126acquired 2018

On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 11:59 AM stuplich@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Is it wrong to use stainless steel bolts as replacements?
Mel'96 Sahara

---In Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Now we are getting into the weeds of the matter, my favorite place!d) Put all bolts back with some kind of anti-seize. With Murphy always around, expect the only bolts to seize with be the ones without lubricant (which are typically the only ones I have to remove).Enquiring minds like to know. Have some wonderful fall journeys. v/r/Taylor Hudson‘98Safari Serengeti (4960), CAT 3126acquired 2018
On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM fountking@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

Bob, I have that extra hole also. Maybe they put it there as a just in case.I am using moly paste on my bolts as this is what my friend uses.He is a diesel mechanic at Kenworth in Buffalo and a farm boy.served in Air Force and has turned wrenches for a long time.He is 2 yrs younger than me so hope he is around to help out when I need him.Bob 96 Serengeti3126 Cat

'

Safarifriends.org