Re: Assistance on winterizing

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TD
Posts: 767
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:01 am

Re: Assistance on winterizing

Post by TD »

'Depending on how cold of a climate you live in, I would suggest to use
caution on the method of putting the antifreeze into the fresh water
tank and pumping it throughout the fresh water system. The reason
being, is our large water tanks never drain completely, so by putting
the antifreeze into the fresh water tank, you are diluting that
antifreeze by an unknown amount and it may not have enough
concentration to protect your pipes. Same goes for the wast tanks,
especially if your coach has to be driven to a storage facility. The
waste tanks never drain completely, and if you don't put enough
antifreeze in the black and grey water tanks, the access black/grey
water sloshes around while driving, and settles against the gate
valves and during the winter it freezes and damages the piping that
contain the gate valves. If those get damaged it is a PITA nightmare
to repair, ask me how I know.

I would suggest, like Craig suggested, that you install the adapter
valve/kit between the fresh water intake and the water pump and then
you will be able to pump antifreeze via your water pump, directly into
the plumping. You can use one of those hand pumps that have been
mentioned, to pump a little bit of antifreeze into the fresh water
tank, just to clear the line of any water. Also, it would be good to
get a winterizing kit (HWH by-pass kit) for the hot water heater. That
kit is similar to the one mentioned above to pump antifreeze into the
plumbing, but it is designed to by-pass the hot water heater, so you
don't have to waste an additional 6 or 10 gallons of antifreeze.

Also, some have mentioned that you can blow out the water lines and
that you don't have to use antifreeze with that method. Again, use
caution and know your system. Not all plumbing is a 100% pitched
correctly to gravity drain, and the leftover water droplets with
migrate to the low points where there are sags in the water lines and
can damage the lines. Unbeknown to me, when I just got my coach, the
water lines were/are terribly placed, and I foolishly followed the
"blow out the lines with air pressure" method, and wallah, next spring
I had damaged valves, waterlines, etc. I can't imagine how much worse
it could have been, if I had the water manifold setup, like the '96
and newer coaches have, talk about a PITA! Again, the ask me how I
know deal. Many will argue that they have successfully used the blow
out method for years, and that is fine, but depending on your plumbing
layout and your climate, it is not a guaranteed method.
On my coach, I blow out the lines, then run antifreeze through them
and pore 1 to 1.5 gallons of antifreeze into the gray and black water
tanks. Using that method, I have not had any issues since.

Prospector Gary, ultimately, it is your coach, and only you can decide
which method will be adequate for your needs (plumbing layout and
severity of climate). This is the method I use for my needs, so I hope
the input helps you.

John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd., w/simple but sloppy plumbing.


On 10/30/19, John Shelton shelton.tony@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> I use a small pump with hoses on the intake and outlet, hook the outlet to
> the fresh water input. I use a 5 gallon bucket to hold the RV antifreeze.
> Make sure the input is on fill. Once the antifreeze is in the fresh water
> tank, turn on your water pump and turn on each faucet till pink comes out.
> When I want to flush it I just run clean water in the fresh water tank and
> keep doing that until I don’t see any foamy water. Some people use bleach
> water to clean the lines. This is not recommended if you have hydronic type
> heating.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 8:33 AM, Gary Smith trekker01@...
> [Safarifriends] wrote:
>
>
>
> Gary,Assume from your question that you were going to put antifreeze into
> your fresh water lines and into the fresh water tank? I would suggest not
> doing that. Drain all tanks completely, remove the anode rod from your hot
> water tank and drain it, blow (or suck with wet/dry vacuum) all water out of
> the lines, with all faucets open. Don't forget the toilet water line. Put
> about a cup of RV safe antifreeze down the drain of both sinks, shower, and
> into the toilet bowl. Make sure your water pump is empty.
>
> Here's a Youtube video for your into:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLs8kTd26I
> There are lots of others on Youtube. Basic processes shown will work on
> most RVs, including your Sahara.
> Gary'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 9:00 AM Craig Burrell technolog1@...
> [Safarifriends] wrote:
>
>
>
> Flush with water and clorox and about 100 gallons through the pipes cleans
> great. Have done it 3 years and it work. Good luck..I bought a kit to hook
> up to the pump that stays inline. Has a hose you put in the gallon of anti
> freeze and turn the pump on and the valve to the hose. got at local rv
> store.
> Craig 93 Continental 8.3 6spJuly I am full timing, can not wait...
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 02:41:49 AM CDT,
> prospectorgary@... [Safarifriends]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for the info. A couple of questions:
> How do you get the anti-freeze into the tank? What kind of connection do
> you use?
> How do you get the anti-freeze out of the lines and sanitize the tank after
> winterizing? I know how to empty the tank and water heater, but I'm not
> certain that just flushing the lines with fresh water is just enought?
> Thanks,
> Gary96 Safari
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Smith
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'
Robert Lewis
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Re: Assistance on winterizing

Post by Robert Lewis »

' Thank you for all the responses. I will follow this advice, I did not realize the gates could be damaged even when the tanks were drained and blown out.
A major concern is also the fill tank that is in the engine bay on the bed wall. This has engine antifreeze in it. I might be incorrect in my understanding. There are two ball valves, with a summer and winter position. I thought that the heat from the engine was used to heat the antifreeze which in turn heated the seaward water tank. Is this heating system totally isolated from the water tank so that a leak could not get into the fresh water system?
The other issue is the anode, where is that located? I see the large drain plug but not the anode.

Robert and Bev Lewis2000 Safari Continental, since 20173126B Cat, 330hpMD3060 Allison
https://safaritoonces.org


On October 30, 2019 7:40:42 PM "John Shelton shelton.tony@... [Safarifriends]" wrote:  
I use a small pump with hoses on the intake and outlet, hook the outlet to the fresh water input. I use a 5 gallon bucket to hold the RV antifreeze. Make sure the input is on fill. Once the antifreeze is in the fresh water tank, turn on your water pump and turn on each faucet till pink comes out. 
When I want to flush it I just run clean water in the fresh water tank and keep doing that until I don’t see any foamy water. Some people use bleach water to clean the lines. This is not recommended if you have hydronic type heating.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 8:33 AM, Gary Smith trekker01@... [Safarifriends] wrote:  
Gary,Assume from your question that you were going to put antifreeze into your fresh water lines and into the fresh water tank?  I would suggest not doing that.  Drain all tanks completely, remove the anode rod from your hot water tank and drain it, blow (or suck with wet/dry vacuum) all water out of the lines, with all faucets open.  Don't forget the toilet water line.  Put about a cup of RV safe antifreeze down the drain of both sinks, shower, and into the toilet bowl.  Make sure your water pump is empty. 

Here's a Youtube video for your into:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLs8kTd26I  
There are lots of others on Youtube.  Basic processes shown will work on most RVs, including your Sahara.
Gary'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT



On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 9:00 AM Craig Burrell technolog1@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
 
Flush with water and clorox and about 100 gallons through the pipes cleans great. Have done it 3 years and it work. Good luck...I bought a kit to hook up to the pump that stays inline. Has a hose you put in the gallon of anti freeze and turn the pump on and the valve to the hose. got at local rv store. 
Craig 93 Continental 8.3  6spJuly I am full timing, can not wait..
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 02:41:49 AM CDT, prospectorgary@... [Safarifriends] wrote:

 
Hi,
Thanks for the info.  A couple of questions:
How do you get the anti-freeze into the tank?  What kind of connection do you use?
How do you get the anti-freeze out of  the lines and sanitize the tank after winterizing?  I know how to empty the tank and water heater, but I'm not certain that just flushing the lines with fresh water is just enought?
Thanks,
Gary96 Safari
--
Gary Smith
ImageImage


'
DOUGLAS BRANCH
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:18 am

Re: Assistance on winterizing

Post by DOUGLAS BRANCH »

'They make a nipple that attaches to the outside water inlet that will allow u to blow air thru your lines!

Sent from my iPhone10 Doug
On Oct 25, 2019, at 9:19 AM, prospectorgary@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
?  
Hi,
After having my 96 Serengeti since new, I'm faced with winterizing it for the first time.
The fresh water tank is empty, the hot water tank is empty.  Plenty of RV anti freeze on hand.
I assume that I need to flush the plumbing and fill the pipes with anti freeze. 


How is that done?
A step by step would be useful.  And really appreciated !

Thanks guys (and gals), I really appreciate the assistance.
Gary Guinotte96 40' SerengettiPolar bear mural.



'
John Shelton
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:05 pm

Re: Assistance on winterizing

Post by John Shelton »

' I should have been more specific Aqua Hot in it’s literature says bleach could damage the internal parts of the boiler. I assumed that most hydronic heaters are made with similar parts, I don’t know that for a fact!


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, October 31, 2019, 7:10 AM, DOUGLAS BRANCH deckiedoo@... [Safarifriends] wrote:  
They make a nipple that attaches to the outside water inlet that will allow u to blow air thru your lines!

Sent from my iPhone10 Doug

On Oct 25, 2019, at 9:19 AM, prospectorgary@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
?  
Hi,
After having my 96 Serengeti since new, I'm faced with winterizing it for the first time.
The fresh water tank is empty, the hot water tank is empty.  Plenty of RV anti freeze on hand.
I assume that I need to flush the plumbing and fill the pipes with anti freeze. 


How is that done?
A step by step would be useful.  And really appreciated !

Thanks guys (and gals), I really appreciate the assistance.
Gary Guinotte96 40' SerengettiPolar bear mural.


'
DOUGLAS BRANCH
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:18 am

Re: Assistance on winterizing

Post by DOUGLAS BRANCH »

'If you drain all lines and blow them out.   I don’t use antifreeze accept in the grey and black tanks.  Unless you flush them completely.   Nothing to freeze if no water in system.  To get anti freeze into the tanks pour into toilet and a sink.  Just my experience.  

Sent from my iPhone10 Doug
On Oct 30, 2019, at 2:41 AM, prospectorgary@... [Safarifriends] wrote:
?  
Hi,
Thanks for the info.  A couple of questions:
How do you get the anti-freeze into the tank?  What kind of connection do you use?
How do you get the anti-freeze out of  the lines and sanitize the tank after winterizing?  I know how to empty the tank and water heater, but I'm not certain that just flushing the lines with fresh water is just enought?
Thanks,
Gary96 Safari

'
RP Sunrise
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:22 am

Re: Assistance on winterizing

Post by RP Sunrise »

' I'm most likely doing this wrong but have had good success for many years even though it is a bit of a pain in the butt. Also, no one mentioned the refrigerator ice maker or the washer.
First I fill the empty black holding tank about 1/3 full with fresh water, add some detergent and a bag of ice (from the beverage center) into the toilet and go for a spin. Fill her up with fuel on the way. The ice and detergent bouncing around should clean off the tank level sensors. Come home and dump both gray and black tanks (I installed a home dumping station). I open up all the fresh water drain valves including holding tank and all the sink and tub valves including hot water, disconnect the shower line, drain the hot water tank by pulling the anoid and leave it out. I then disconnect both lines to the refrigerator (supply and ice maker I think), not much comes out but it might help getting water out of the supply line. The the pain in the butt, I crawl into the basement and disconnect both lines (In and Out) to the water pump and turn the pump on for a few seconds to get all water out of it. On the toilet there is the supply/flush valve, on the bottom it has a cap that will screw out with a spring inside. Failure to do that I have had to replace twice. I turn the washer on for a second to pump any water out of the pump and remove the lint trap on the bottom (don't forget to put it back in the spring). I don't use any antifreeze and leave my holding tank valves mostly open and the end cap off. Don't forget your batteries.
I will be happy to receive any Criticism or recommendations.
Bob 99 Zanzibar Purchased in 2005, first trip in the rig was to volunteer in Mississippi after Katrina.
From: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com on behalf of TD sdjhtm@... [Safarifriends]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:18 PM
To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Assistance on winterizing
    Depending on how cold of a climate you live in, I would suggest to use
caution on the method of putting the antifreeze into the fresh water
tank and pumping it throughout the fresh water system. The reason
being, is our large water tanks never drain completely, so by putting
the antifreeze into the fresh water tank, you are diluting that
antifreeze by an unknown amount and it may not have enough
concentration to protect your pipes. Same goes for the wast tanks,
especially if your coach has to be driven to a storage facility. The
waste tanks never drain completely, and if you don't put enough
antifreeze in the black and grey water tanks, the access black/grey
water sloshes around while driving, and settles against the gate
valves and during the winter it freezes and damages the piping that
contain the gate valves. If those get damaged it is a PITA nightmare
to repair, ask me how I know.

I would suggest, like Craig suggested, that you install the adapter
valve/kit between the fresh water intake and the water pump and then
you will be able to pump antifreeze via your water pump, directly into
the plumping. You can use one of those hand pumps that have been
mentioned, to pump a little bit of antifreeze into the fresh water
tank, just to clear the line of any water. Also, it would be good to
get a winterizing kit (HWH by-pass kit) for the hot water heater. That
kit is similar to the one mentioned above to pump antifreeze into the
plumbing, but it is designed to by-pass the hot water heater, so you
don't have to waste an additional 6 or 10 gallons of antifreeze.

Also, some have mentioned that you can blow out the water lines and
that you don't have to use antifreeze with that method. Again, use
caution and know your system. Not all plumbing is a 100% pitched
correctly to gravity drain, and the leftover water droplets with
migrate to the low points where there are sags in the water lines and
can damage the lines. Unbeknown to me, when I just got my coach, the
water lines were/are terribly placed, and I foolishly followed the
"blow out the lines with air pressure" method, and wallah, next spring
I had damaged valves, waterlines, etc. I can't imagine how much worse
it could have been, if I had the water manifold setup, like the '96
and newer coaches have, talk about a PITA! Again, the ask me how I
know deal. Many will argue that they have successfully used the blow
out method for years, and that is fine, but depending on your plumbing
layout and your climate, it is not a guaranteed method.
On my coach, I blow out the lines, then run antifreeze through them
and pore 1 to 1.5 gallons of antifreeze into the gray and black water
tanks. Using that method, I have not had any issues since.

Prospector Gary, ultimately, it is your coach, and only you can decide
which method will be adequate for your needs (plumbing layout and
severity of climate). This is the method I use for my needs, so I hope
the input helps you.

John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd., w/simple but sloppy plumbing.

On 10/30/19, John Shelton shelton.tony@... [Safarifriends]
wrote:
> I use a small pump with hoses on the intake and outlet, hook the outlet to
> the fresh water input. I use a 5 gallon bucket to hold the RV antifreeze.
> Make sure the input is on fill. Once the antifreeze is in the fresh water
> tank, turn on your water pump and turn on each faucet till pink comes out.
> When I want to flush it I just run clean water in the fresh water tank and
> keep doing that until I don’t see any foamy water. Some people use bleach
> water to clean the lines. This is not recommended if you have hydronic type
> heating.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 8:33 AM, Gary Smith trekker01@...
> [Safarifriends] wrote:
>
>
>
> Gary,Assume from your question that you were going to put antifreeze into
> your fresh water lines and into the fresh water tank? I would suggest not
> doing that. Drain all tanks completely, remove the anode rod from your hot
> water tank and drain it, blow (or suck with wet/dry vacuum) all water out of
> the lines, with all faucets open. Don't forget the toilet water line. Put
> about a cup of RV safe antifreeze down the drain of both sinks, shower, and
> into the toilet bowl. Make sure your water pump is empty.
>
> Here's a Youtube video for your into:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLs8kTd26I
> There are lots of others on Youtube. Basic processes shown will work on
> most RVs, including your Sahara.
> Gary'98 Sahara 3006 300CAT
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 9:00 AM Craig Burrell technolog1@...
> [Safarifriends] wrote:
>
>
>
> Flush with water and clorox and about 100 gallons through the pipes cleans
> great. Have done it 3 years and it work. Good luck..I bought a kit to hook
> up to the pump that stays inline. Has a hose you put in the gallon of anti
> freeze and turn the pump on and the valve to the hose. got at local rv
> store.
> Craig 93 Continental 8.3 6spJuly I am full timing, can not wait...
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 02:41:49 AM CDT,
> prospectorgary@... [Safarifriends]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for the info. A couple of questions:
> How do you get the anti-freeze into the tank? What kind of connection do
> you use?
> How do you get the anti-freeze out of the lines and sanitize the tank after
> winterizing? I know how to empty the tank and water heater, but I'm not
> certain that just flushing the lines with fresh water is just enought?
> Thanks,
> Gary96 Safari
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Smith
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