Fridge, move to inverter

Have you made changes to your coach? Improvements? Remodel? New technology? Tell the story and show some pictures here.
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Safaritoonces
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:51 am
Location: Bowen Island, BC
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Fridge, move to inverter

Post by Safaritoonces »

Tom and anyone else, I saw that you had moved your fridge to your inverter. This is something I need to do as well. I do not want to use the propane for the fridge and have it shutoff.
  • What wiring did you change if any? I see the 120v receptacle in the outside fridge compartment but on my unit I think it is on just shore power.
  • Do you know what the fridge power draw is in amps and kwh? I will use the original fridge and eventually change the fridge internals to the low power dc unit John mentioned.
    • I looked at residential alternatives and for me at this point it's more work and money than I can invest. I need to come come to an end of these massive refurbishment projects I have been pulled into.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
astrnmrtom
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Fridge, move to inverter

Post by astrnmrtom »

I didn't have any outlets near the refrigerator compartment that were on the inverter circuit and was wondering what was the best place to tap into the inverter circuit and run a new wire. As I was poking around in the main storage compartment looking for possible paths for the wires I noticed the factory outlet next to a TV cable plug and phone jack, probably intended to plug a small TV into. I discovered this outlet WAS on the inverter circuit and it was almost right below the refrigerator compartment. Behind the outlet was where Safari ran a lot of wires and even Hurricane heater hoses from the main compartment up into the bathroom under the base of the sink cabinet. This area abutted the wall of the refrigerator compartment. I considered tapping into this outlet and running romex up through the chase and feeding it through the wall common to the bathroom and refrigerator and adding a new outlet behind the refrigerator. What I did instead was use a short, heavy duty appliance extension cord that I had hanging in my garage, to go from the refrigerator down through the chase and to the compartment below exiting just near the outlet. By doing so I can unplug the refrigerator when I have the rig at my house and don't want the refrigerator on. This particular refrigerator doesn't have an on/off switch so when it's plugged into an outlet, it runs. I never tested it but there is an outlet under the kitchen table that I think might be on the inverter. If it is, that would have been another place to tap into since I could run romex or small conduit through those cabinets and into the refrigerator compartment. I did it the way I did because I had the heavy duty cord and it was the perfect length to drop down through the existing utility chase to plug into that compartment outlet.

I don't recall the exact specs but I believe the Fisher & Paykell draws less than 2 amps@120v when cooling - this is of course close to 20amps@12v. I've read that the refrigerator runs less than 20 minutes per hour. Like many new energy efficient refrigerators it has a DC compressor with it's own built in inverter so it's happy on the older Modified Sine Wave inverters that Safari used in these era coaches. However, one of my next updates was to replace the old Heart Interface MSW inverter with a modern PSW unit which I'm sure is more efficient. To be conservative, I still figure 80% inverter efficiency even though the new one specs says it's better than that. If my math is correct, that's roughly 100AH per 12 hours of running time. That'll be half of my battery capacity when I switch to 4, 6V golf cart batteries this coming spring.

I've only boondocked one time since installing the new refrigerator and inverter, and then only for 3 nights and my batteries did fine with 600watts of solar on the roof. This was in summer sun in the Pacific Northwest where the days are long, the nights short and I was camping by myself so refrigerator use was minimal. I expect in the future when doing more, and longer boondocking trips, in varying weather, with two of us, that I'll be adding some generator time to the mix.

The Fisher and Paykel was a perfect fit after lowering the compartment floor a few inches. It was the shallowest counter depth french door refrigerator we found so it fit perfectly without protruding into the doorway going to the bathroom. I lowered the floor more than needed to fit the new refrigerator to make it easier for my wife to be able to reach items on the back of the upper shelf. Fortunately, the only thing under the refrigerator was the Hurricane register and it was mounted on a 3" platform. I dropped it almost to the floor and placed the new platform as low as possible while still maintaining airflow clearance to the register fan intake. The downside is the F&P is $1000 more than the popular Samsung. I lucked out and stumbled on one in the scratch and dent section of Lowes for $850! It had a broken wheel and a tiny ding on the side. Cant see the ding, and I removed the wheels when I installed it so I got a screamin' deal.

I was ok with the original Norcold as long as it worked. After adding internal and external fans, and properly baffling the roof vent it worked well even in 90+ degree weather. My wife however was worried about the risk of fire and read how happy people were going with a residential unit, so we decided to make the swap. I was recently retired, had plenty of time and the skills to do the install, and we'd been stashing away some cash for just such a project. When we stumbled on the F&P for that price, that sealed the deal. I found the project challenging, fun, and ultimately rewarding.

Hope this helps.
Tom and Pris Masterson, w/ Buddy the 18 year old Siamese cat.
1998 Serengeti 3706
300hp Cat 3126, Allison 3060
900 Watts of Solar
17cf, Fisher & Paykel residential Refrigerator
Dragging four telescopes around the US seeking dark skies.
Safaritoonces
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:51 am
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Contact:

Re: Fridge, move to inverter

Post by Safaritoonces »

That helps a great deal Tom, thank you for a very thorough explanation..

We are in complete agreement with your wife. We had one propane RV fire and are done with propane except for the stove. My wife has been using an Instapot and convection air fryer so even using the stove will be very seldom. I'm changing the plumbing and connections under the sink and adding a walled compartment with slides for these appliances.

You mentioned running a cable down the chase, I don't know where or what that is, can you explain please.

The fridge you picked sounds perfect, this one was also recommended by another Safari friend. I don't think I have seen these in Canada, but i have to put more time in looking.
Last edited by Safaritoonces on Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
TDJohn
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:34 pm

Re: Fridge, move to inverter

Post by TDJohn »

Tom,

Looking at some of the prices of that brand, it sounds like you sure did get a screaming deal. :D

What brand was your refrigerator that you removed and do you still have it?

When you mentioned that your refrigerator will use half of your battery capacity, are you talking about total battery capacity or usable capacity?

If you will be boondocking in the winter time, it sounds like you will be needing to use your generator daily, as the solar days are very short. One thing to note, if your batteries are low enough, where the short solar days or poor weather won't fully charge the batteries, it is better and more efficient to use the generator in the morning to do a quick bulk charge or even a partial bulk charge and then the solar can top off the batteries throughout the rest of the day. This allows one to minimize the generator run time needed and still have a full charge by the end of the day. Usually a short run of 30 min to an hour is more than plenty and the solar handles the rest. Many folks end up firing up their generator in the evening to charge their batteries when they realize the solar did not fully charge them, this is the least efficient way to use the generator.
Another option to consider, to help conserve power consumption at night, is to put the refrigerator on a timer, and have it set up where it runs during the day and is off at night, with an exception of one 20 min cycle in the middle of the night. The new refrigerators are pretty well insulated, so one run cycle will be more than enough to keep the food cool till the morning.

As for upgrading your inverter in the future, I upgraded my inverter to a Magnum (MS2812) pure sign wave inverter, and I can't recommend it enough. Even though they cost slightly more, they are high quality and work really well, and are one of the few, if not the only ones that are still made in America.
For people that ofthen park in driveways of relatives and/or friends (moochdock), Magnum has a very nifty hybrid inverter (MSH3000) that allows you to draw more power than the 15amp house outlet that you will likely plug into, assisting/making up the difference of the power used, in excess of the 15amps, by inverting. When the load decreases it switches back to charging mode and recharges the batteries back up. For an example, if your plugged into a 15 amp outlet and you need to use your a/c, it will help cover the difference, and at night and/or when the a/c compressor cycles off, it recharges the batteries back up. A very nifty option for the ones that need it...
The other nice thing about these inverters, is their charger is very efficient. My old Xantrex 2012 would draw 30amps @ 120vac at full output of 100amps dc, while the Magnum only draws 18amps @ 120vac at full output of 125amps dc. A marked difference in power consumption.

Another thing I did on my coach when I started boondocking, I set up my coach were the inverter can run the whole coach, this way I am able to use what ever outlet I want to. Obviously this requires simple power management, as the inverter output capacity is limited. For me this was so much more practical and user friendly, instead of running extension cords everywhere and guessing which outlets work on the inverter and which don't.

Just some ideas and suggestions for the ones that enjoy or are considering boondocking. 8-)
John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd.
astrnmrtom
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Fridge, move to inverter

Post by astrnmrtom »

John, my previous refrigerator was the original, 20 year old, factory installed Norcold 1200. I sold it for a few hundred to a local guy who lives off grid and was tired of using an icebox.

When I said I expect the fridge to use about half the capacity, it was the usable capacity. I'll have about 440 amp hours of total capacity and with the 50% discharge rule, that'll leave me with aprox 220 amp hours usable. Of course there will be other things that will compete for that total, throw in short solar days, trees and cloudy weather, and my generator will definitely be a part of my energy management system. I figure mornings will be time for coffee, toast an a few other power hungry items so I'll be running the generator for those and I'll keep it going after to dump some amps into the batteries. Along with the onboard generator, I've picked up a 2000watt portable as another option. Thanks for the timer info, sounds like a great idea and I'll definitely take that advice and pick one up. I've installed a battery monitor which will help me track juice in, and juice out, and a there's always my trusty hydrometer as a backup.

Right now our plans are to be boondocking for no more than a week max at a time, then camping with power, so between the solar and the two generators we should be good. I'm not tied to any expectations of how much or how little I need to use a generator. Treating my batteries well is the main priority. Up until this point my boondocking experience, both prior to, and once after going with a residential refrigerator, has been by myself on astronomy trips away from utilities where generator use is restricted. My solar has worked great in that case, but I really kept my electrical use very, very low. At night I'm outside observing so almost no power in the rig even for light. Don't use the furnace in the evening because I'm bundled up for being outside. During the day I'm sleeping so there's little draw then. This spring my wife and I will be heading out to full time so I know my generator will be my friend as there'll be computers, TVs, lights at night, two people running pumps, using lights, staying warm/cool and opening and closing the refrigerator, etc, etc - in other words, as normal a life as possible. My wife has already made it very clear that if the weather is bad and we can't be comfortable off grid, we'll be going to a place with power.

Regarding the Fisher and Paykel. We spent countless hours measuring tape in hand, prowling though the refrigerator isles at every store within 100 miles, and countless hours online trying to find a residential unit that would work in our rig. The factory placement of the refrigerator right next to an already narrow door to our bathroom/bedroom knocked most counter depth models out of the running, they'd protrude too far into the doorway. Some cheap, small apartment sized two door models would work but with our slide in, it would not allow the doors to be opened all the way without hitting the kitchen counter. We'd find one that was shallow enough, but too tall, or too wide. The only french door one that worked without any issues was the F&P but the price was way more than we wanted to spend. Finally we decided it was our only option so we grit our teeth and started putting away some extra cash every paycheck. We still kept looking for an alternative, and it was on one of those trips I spotted the F&P in the isle with a big yellow tag on it with the number 850. I figured it was $850 OFF regular price which was still a deal, but instead $850 was THE price. After picking my jaw up off the floor I sent my wife to go get a sales person while I guarded the refrigerator like a hungry dog with a bone, glaring at anyone who came within 20 feet. My wife came back salesman in tow, he confirmed the price and asked what was wrong with it. It was a special order return, and it had the broken wheel, that was it. I didn't even notice the little ding in the side until we got it home. We couldn't believe our luck. What was really weird is we have looked at many scratch and dent appliances and I always felt the discount was too small, usually $150, so when I saw this was about 60% off I couldn't believe my eyes. I told my wife on the way home we should stop and buy a lottery ticket, excpet we probably used up our lifetime supply of good luck on that refrigerator. :D
Tom and Pris Masterson, w/ Buddy the 18 year old Siamese cat.
1998 Serengeti 3706
300hp Cat 3126, Allison 3060
900 Watts of Solar
17cf, Fisher & Paykel residential Refrigerator
Dragging four telescopes around the US seeking dark skies.
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