Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Pretty much everything on the bottom side of the coach: Steering, wheels, tires, brakes, suspension
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BeaverOwner
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Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by BeaverOwner »

I'm looking for a diagram/schematic for the Air System that SMC used in the 2001-2005 Beaver Marquis and patriot Thunder. This would be the SMC Magnum "Blue Diamond" chassis.

I'm trying to run down some air leaks and having a diagram of the air system would greatly help. Both sides (green and red) leak down equally fast so I'm thinking I have a check valve (or shuttle valve) somewhere that is leaking and not keeping the two air systems separated.

My Coach has two mid-chassis mounted air tanks (there is also one at the back by the differential).

The two tanks in the photo are "dual tanks". You can see the weld that separates the tanks. Does anyone know if there is an internal check valve (or are all the connections done externally)?
Beaver stacked Air Tanks (mid-chassis).JPG
Beaver stacked Air Tanks (mid-chassis).JPG (1.02 MiB) Viewed 6819 times
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)
Safaritoonces
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Location: Bowen Island, BC
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Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by Safaritoonces »

Did you look at the air system presentation I posted? There's a diagram and explanation of the air system, there were 2 I think. There are troubleshooting procedures used that might help you. I think I have the same chassis.

https://safaritoonces.org/project-tree- ... air-system

there is a second is on the air horns if you are interested.

My guess is that you have a separate wet and dry tank, mine has the wet and dry sections in the same tank. If rv dealers worked on your air system you have a good chance that you also have connection errors. I am assuming you do not have air brakes, If so none of the above applies.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
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BeaverOwner
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Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by BeaverOwner »

Yes, I have full air brakes.
There is a Wet/dry tank (actually both of those stacked tanks are "dual tanks" (two separate tanks in one). At least they look to be - there is a weld seam around both tanks). The air from the compressor comes in at the right side of bottom tank. It comes out the green line and then goes into the right side of the upper tank. The only thing coming off the right side of the upper tank are small 3/8 and 1/4 inch lines (nothing big enough for the brakes).

So are these tanks "split"? I see a weld on both tanks suggesting they are both dual tanks.

Also - the bottom tank has the Red and Black lines coming out and going to the rear brakes (and the rear tank). So how is the air getting into the lower tank (the left side of the split tank)? There is a green 5/8" line running to the front of coach. I guess that must be a supply line for the tank (I though it was feeding to the front (maybe to treadle valve).

I'm wondering if these tanks have an internal port with check valve (to let air go from right side to left tank inside the tank).
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)
Safaritoonces
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:51 am
Location: Bowen Island, BC
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Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by Safaritoonces »

On my system the air goes into the tank on the top, Normally only the water drain should be on the bottom. If you have other lines off the bottom feeding systems like the air gauge, horns, and step you will run the risk of putting water into the systems not designed to handle water. That happened on my coach from RV tech's that were either lazy or incompetent or both. It is faster to connect to the bottom of the tank then the top, especially if the tank already mounted.

Full Air brake Systems are much more complex systems than air over hydraulic so it is criticial to know exactly the safety ramifications before making changes. But that being said, you should be able to isolate all the air paths and test a single path at a time and put it back exactly the same. If you do not have "push to fit" fittings you may have air leaks on the ferrel fittings. I found several of these.errors. Crushed lines, missing the ferrels etc.

I think I outlined how I separated the paths to check for air leaks.

This is a guess but if the tank has two sections, the first is the feed from the compressor and is the wet side the second is the output to the devices and is the dry compartment. Again feed in and feed out are normally on the top of the tank, water is meant to accumulate on the bottom.

I don't know about there being a check valve, my guess would be there isn't one for the non air brake components if they have their own tank. However I think I remember there being sections that balanced air flow and surge sections for the air brake components on a drawing I saw. Jim Exler sent me a schematic of a full air brake System and I will try to find this and post it.

The water on my tank condensates because of internal baffles as I understand. There is no need for valves because the water is at the bottom and the draw is from the top and the pressure is the same in both campartments, the reason for two sections is to cause the damp air to condensate out the water and the dryer air passes to the next section. But this may be not the same on a full air brake system, this is what I found on my system that's air over hydraulic.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
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BeaverOwner
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:50 am

Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by BeaverOwner »

i can confirm that these tanks do have an "internal check valve".
I can remove the end plug and look inside tank with a flashlight and see the vales. I also tested them and found they do leak a little. But since it is an internal leak - I'm just going to leave them alone for now and focus on finding all the external leaks.
Air Tank - Internal Check Valve.jpg
Air Tank - Internal Check Valve.jpg (179.8 KiB) Viewed 6800 times
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)
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BeaverOwner
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Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by BeaverOwner »

I'm making an Air System diagram. I still have to trace a few air lines - but basically this is how it is set up.
2005 Beaver PT (Magnum D-Series) Air System schematic.jpg
2005 Beaver PT (Magnum D-Series) Air System schematic.jpg (239.69 KiB) Viewed 6781 times
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)
Safaritoonces
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:51 am
Location: Bowen Island, BC
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Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by Safaritoonces »

If the picture you have is the top of your tanks, it looks good from what I can see. This is a good system as you have a dryer ahead of the tanks and separation of the sections into wet and dry, so the air drying has redundancy. If you are looking for air leaks, as per the the presentation, you can try the method used to isolate each line, then use a soap spray to look for air leaks.

If I am correct in what I can see, you have push to connect fittings on the smaller lines but ferrule connections on some of the larger lines. This might indicate that someone else was chasing air leaks as well. I would suggest changing them all to push to connect fittings, these don't leak. One place that I was told I might have an air leak was on the compression output valve. I haven't checked this out as yet. How to check this is to remove the line from the compressor put in a air coupler and feed the tanks from a shop air compressor with a gauge on the system to test for leak down. I have an air gauge in the service bay and that coupler as per the presentation on the rear of the coach. I can see it leak down but haven't found the leak yet. When the compressor is running it is insignificant leakage, but this is only true because I have no safety equipment that uses the air system apart from the emergency brake and that is not an issue because my leak is relatively trivial. This would not be true on a full air brake system.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
User avatar
BeaverOwner
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:50 am

Re: Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis (D-Series, Blue Diamond)

Post by BeaverOwner »

You are correct Robert that the fittings changed from "push-to-connect" to standard "compression" fittings were done by me to fix air leaks. Almost all of the P-T-C fittings that have a swivel (a 90 degree fitting) tend to leak. I changed those out and still have a few more to do. Those Parker Compression fittings (5/8" line) are about $14 each, so I don't just want to replace every one. But it seems that they will all start leaking at some point.

I am using soapy water to locate leaks (I have the thicker soap designed for finding air leaks. Regular dish soap doesn't work as well). I found two more leaks last weekend. Ordered more fittings.

The reason I was hoping to find an Air System diagram, is that my Red and Green (Primary and Secondary) air systems are dropping at the same rate. I think there must be an internal leak between the systems - like a bad "shuttle valve" or "double check valve" somewhere. I think it is unlikely that both the Primary and Secondary air systems have leaks that are identical in size/leakage-rate.

The diagram I attached above is one that "I am making" (I just copied the valves and tanks from another drawing and place where they are on my coach) as I go through the air system tracing air lines. I still have some more tracing to do at the front of coach.

The photo below shows two more leaks I found at the rear of coach last weekend (you can see the leak by the bubbles on the fitting). Both are hard to get to. I will change the leaking to Relay valve - but probably not do anything with the leaking Tag Axle lift/dump valve.
I also have a fitting leaking at the Treadle Valve (which is hard enough to get to - but also I don't think I can replace the leaking fitting (with a standard 90 degree compression fitting) without first removal the fittings above it. This may be a place where a new P-T-C swivel 90 is warranted.
Attachments
Beaver - air leak at Treadle Vale.jpg
Beaver - air leak at Treadle Vale.jpg (225.18 KiB) Viewed 6757 times
Air leaks at brake relay vale and Tag axle valves.JPG
Air leaks at brake relay vale and Tag axle valves.JPG (299.09 KiB) Viewed 6757 times
- Mike
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525HP C13
( SMC Magnum D-series chassis)
Debrapiept

Looking for Air System diagram for SMC Magnum chassis D Series Blue Diamond

Post by Debrapiept »

Hard to tell from pictures, but the chassis looks to be well triangulated. Maybe a locost with the Aussie mods.... If the price is right, why not.

You wont be driving it in those boots though.
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