New Shocks my experience

Pretty much everything on the bottom side of the coach: Steering, wheels, tires, brakes, suspension
wolfe10
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by wolfe10 »

John,

Worked with Ralph Andrews and B.F. Goodrich in 2000. Goodrich sold that division (to Lord Corp who is a major metal to rubber bonding company, but they never produced any Torsilastic components) shortly after I worked with them. As you know, Ralph was a tremendous asset to Safari owners as well as a great guy, but passed away several years ago.

Worked with Koni in 2010. The guys I worked with at Koni are no longer there, sorry. Koni used to publish dampening specs on their shocks. Have not seen that in many years-- suspect other manufacturers were "borrowing" all Koni's R&D to make there own off-brand "replaces XXX" shocks. You would have as much luck as I with the guys there now.

The beauty of the 99 series (which I did have on our 2003 Alpine (also a Gary Jones designed chassis) is that they could generate very high dampening on extension, yet because of their size (99mm vs 88mm) with better reliability. When they were developing the FSD's for our Foretravel, they started with the 88 shock and installed FSD valving. The dampening ideal for the Torsilastic suspension was at the upper limit of the 88 series and reliability suffered. They then made me a set with same dampening, but based in the 90 series which proved reliable.

Yes, all this a long time ago.

And, when I "retired" as FMCA Forum Moderator and Chairman of the FMCA Technical Advisory Committee, Dianne made me promise that I WOULD retire. Was just spending too many hours a day there. So, no I am no longer active there.

Brett
Brett and Dianne Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'. Ex 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex 1993 Foretravel U240
Moderator, FMCA Forums 2009-2020
Chairman, FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011- 2020
Moderator, http://www.dieselrvclub.org/ (FMCA chapter) 2002-
CactusTwo
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:06 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by CactusTwo »

I have been keeping an eye on Koni part numbers on this and other sites and seems that for my 96 Geti 3740 with VelvetRide no bags I need 88-1641SP3 in the front, however early posts show my rear as 88-1458 "SP2" and now I see it as 88-1458 "SP1" on this forum. Is there a difference or just a correction? I appreciate ALL that you guys offer as knowledge.
Len 96 Serengeti 3740 Cat 3126, Allison 6speed VelvetRide
Len and Brenda Nugent
Alberta, Canada, fulltimers since 2012
1996 Safari Serengeti 3740 front door, bought in Feb 2019
Cat 3126 300hp, Allison MD3060, VelvetRide suspension
sold 2008 GMC Duramax 3500 and 37' Cedar Creek 5th wheel
TDJohn
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:34 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by TDJohn »

CactusTwo wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:25 am I have been keeping an eye on Koni part numbers on this and other sites and seems that for my 96 Geti 3740 with VelvetRide no bags I need 88-1641SP3 in the front, however early posts show my rear as 88-1458 "SP2" and now I see it as 88-1458 "SP1" on this forum. Is there a difference or just a correction? I appreciate ALL that you guys offer as knowledge.
Len 96 Serengeti 3740 Cat 3126, Allison 6speed VelvetRide
Len,

The SP1 is a much smoother shock on the high frequency, jarring type bumps, without losing any sway control for the big road dips and bridge transitions (low frequency bumps). Meaning, the damping on compression is less, which is what gives you the smoother ride, and the dampening on extension is the same as the SP2. Damping on extension is what controls the coach from swaying on low frequency bumps like large dips in the road. For good ride and handling, our coaches require a whole lot of damping on extension and very little on compression, and Koni has figured that concept out and produces a very effective product. That said, not all shocks are the same, even when dealing with the same brand, so my suggestion is, stick with the numbers that have been posted if you want the smoothest possible ride that doesn't sacrifice on handling and sway control. If you dig through the legacy content folder, you will find my write-up on how this upgrade to the smoother shock came about.
John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd.
TDJohn
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:34 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by TDJohn »

Brett,

As far as I know, we have only one member who has tried the EVO99s on the front axle of his VelvetRide coach. He reported that it has good sway control, but that it rides a tad harsher over the high frequency bumps. My guess would be that they must have added additional damping on compression.
More than likely, they will eventually phase out the 88-1641SP3, and the EVO99 looks to be an adequate replacement.

Yes, Alpines chassis was pretty robust and impressive. I heard that before Ralph passed, he actually mounted his Safari on an Alpine chassis, making it an amazing Frankin coach (the best of both worlds). I wonder if Ralph's wife still has that coach, or if it is still on the road.

I can understand, these forums are very time consuming, I can't imagine being a moderator on top of that. You are a wise man to keep your promises. ;) :mrgreen:
John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd.
CactusTwo
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:06 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by CactusTwo »

John,
Thanks for the info, I did notice Bump compression differences on a Koni spec sheet but now know which one is best for Safaris, smoother! Again thanks for the knowledgeable info, this is great
Len
Len and Brenda Nugent
Alberta, Canada, fulltimers since 2012
1996 Safari Serengeti 3740 front door, bought in Feb 2019
Cat 3126 300hp, Allison MD3060, VelvetRide suspension
sold 2008 GMC Duramax 3500 and 37' Cedar Creek 5th wheel
rvtips
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:29 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by rvtips »

OK on shocks,We have a 2003 Safari Sahara 36ft with the roadmaster chassis with 4 air bags/springs.
What would be the part number for the shocks.
Thanks
Phillip
2003 Safari Sahara 3622
Cummins ISC 350 HP 6 speed Allison
Toad=2010 Honda CRV
TDJohn
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:34 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by TDJohn »

rvtips wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:22 pm OK on shocks,We have a 2003 Safari Sahara 36ft with the roadmaster chassis with 4 air bags/springs.
What would be the part number for the shocks.
Thanks
Phillip
Phillip,

Front Shocks: Koni EVO 99B-3209

Rear Shocks: Koni FSD 8805 1022

This outfit usually has the best prices.

Link for Front Shocks: https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Koni-RV ... filter=500

Link for Rear Shocks: https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Koni-RV ... filter=500
John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd.
wolfe10
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by wolfe10 »

Be sure as you read through this thread that you pay ABSOLUTE ATTENTION to the various chassis being discussed.

There, for example is virtually no relationship between Torsilastic suspension (aka Velvet Ride) and the Monaco 4 bag Roadmaster suspension.

So comments and part numbers for one should be IGNORED by those with completely different suspensions.

For those with Torsilastic suspensions, a relatively inexpensive first step on their suspension is to set RIDE HEIGHT. Ride height is raised (common to loose ride height as rubber ages and if too low, suspension can bottom out and give a really harsh ride). No parts are needed-- REMOVING shims raises ride height. NOTE: the very best shock in the world will give a terrible ride if there is only 1" of suspension travel before the suspension bottoms out!

Using only hand tools and a 1/2" torque wrench I have adjusted ride height on many, many of these suspensions. Ralph Andrews has an excellent write-up on checking ride height.
Brett and Dianne Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'. Ex 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex 1993 Foretravel U240
Moderator, FMCA Forums 2009-2020
Chairman, FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011- 2020
Moderator, http://www.dieselrvclub.org/ (FMCA chapter) 2002-
Mrcraigburrell
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:33 am

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by Mrcraigburrell »

I have a 93 continental and the back is 3/4 higher than front. I would like to find the best way to fix it. Anyone have info please send my way. Also I am in Phoenix for a month and looking for some one to do a little fiberglass work. Thanks
wolfe10
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Re: New Shocks my experience

Post by wolfe10 »

Mrcraigburrell wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:43 am I have a 93 continental and the back is 3/4 higher than front. I would like to find the best way to fix it. Anyone have info please send my way. Also I am in Phoenix for a month and looking for some one to do a little fiberglass work. Thanks
Private message me your e-mail address and I can forward Ralph Andrew's excellent, easy to follow directions for measuring and adjusting ride height. If anyone has a link to Ralph's write-up, please post it.

First step, after parking on flat pavement is to measure ride height at each wheel position and also record the number of shims in front and back of each wheel position.

You will measure from the center of each wheel to the bottom of the beltline molding-- spec is 25"
Brett and Dianne Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'. Ex 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex 1993 Foretravel U240
Moderator, FMCA Forums 2009-2020
Chairman, FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011- 2020
Moderator, http://www.dieselrvclub.org/ (FMCA chapter) 2002-
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