Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

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Safaritoonces
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by Safaritoonces »

Matt

I think that you can assume that any wires with a fuse should go to the +ve battery terminal or a similar connection point as a source. I have never seen a connection to a ground with a fuse block to date.

The one wire that you need to ID is the VIM ground. That is a heavier gauge wire on my system a 12 or 14 AWG wire (I can't remember exactly). That wire is probably why you get no lights on your transmission pad.

I would suggest putting an ohm meter on each wire and testing the connection points on the relay board relay module in the battery bay for continuity. You may find some these unknown wires go to that module. Again see the video on the battery tray, and no start that I did. From there it may be possible to figure out the connection logic.

Also one wire on my relay module in the battery bay went to the 35A ANL fuse on the engine bay fire wall. Therefore using a voltmeter, with one lead on ground measure each of the wires. Do any of them 12V or more?

From what I can see, I would guess that the yellow wire might be a battery connection given the strands are large and broken off. This can happen when someone connects a smaller gauge wire to the large battery bank and it is slide on and out, eventually breaking the strands. Again you should review the video and drawing I did. I did this presentation with John after he and I worked on my coach trying to get it started. We found the fuse damaged but also we found wires marked for the VIM system, VIM gnd and VIM battery.... if I remember correctly. This was imprinted on the wires in the loom. Your wires may have this lettering but don't rub the dust off, this will rub off the ink.... just spray with a mist of water to clean the lettering would be my advice.

The more you work with this the more obvious it will become. You are probably only one wire away from getting this working. My bet is that this is the VIM ground wire that will go to the negative post on the battery.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
stuplich@ymail.com
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

Safaritoonces wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:55 pm Matt
I think that you can assume that any wires with a fuse should go to the +ve battery terminal or a similar connection point as a source. I have never seen a connection to a ground with a fuse block to date.
The one wire that you need to ID is the VIM ground. That is a heavier gauge wire on my system a 12 or 14 AWG wire (I can't remember exactly). That wire is probably why you get no lights on your transmission pad.
I would suggest putting an ohm meter on each wire and testing the connection points on the relay board relay module in the battery bay for continuity. You may find some these unknown wires go to that module. Again see the video on the battery tray, and no start that I did. From there it may be possible to figure out the connection logic.
Also one wire on my relay module in the battery bay went to the 35A ANL fuse on the engine bay fire wall. Therefore using a voltmeter, with one lead on ground measure each of the wires. Do any of them 12V or more?
From what I can see, I would guess that the yellow wire might be a battery connection given the strands are large and broken off. This can happen when someone connects a smaller gauge wire to the large battery bank and it is slide on and out, eventually breaking the strands. Again you should review the video and drawing I did. I did this presentation with John after he and I worked on my coach trying to get it started. We found the fuse damaged but also we found wires marked for the VIM system, VIM gnd and VIM battery.... if I remember correctly. This was imprinted on the wires in the loom. Your wires may have this lettering but don't rub the dust off, this will rub off the ink.... just spray with a mist of water to clean the lettering would be my advice.
The more you work with this the more obvious it will become. You are probably only one wire away from getting this working. My bet is that this is the VIM ground wire that will go to the negative post on the battery.
Robert
That's all good advice.
However we haven't heard a peep from Matt since Jan 15.
Do you think he still needs help?

Matt
Any progress on/solution to your now 10 day old problem?
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison
TDJohn
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by TDJohn »

matcappel wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:22 am Here is a good overview, the back positive is below
Rear Positive connections.jpg
This last picture below is of one of the wires with the fuse a foot down the line. Makes sense that they go on the positive right?
Wire with fuse inline 1 of 3 in group.jpg
Any concerns please share, but I just bought some new batteries this weekend after discussions with John about keeping fresh batteries and low voltage concerns about the ECM and ECU. I will connect to the positive new batter once we get a day warmer than a high of 19° F... burr.

Stay warm and thank you all so much! I will let you know if she starts (assuming no concerns with putting back on the positive terminal).
Mel,

Your statement that Matt has not responded in 10 days is just plain false. See his quoted post here, that he posted with photos 3 days ago. Note the sections that I highlighted that explains why he might not update us right away.
Considering the weather for folks living up north and that life's circumstances can throw a monkey wrench into someones repair progress, it doesn't seem fair nor nice to discourage others from posting on an active topic because the OP did not respond in a so-called "timely manner", especially when the individual is asking for input. This is very different than replying to a dormant post that has been dormant in access of 3 months.
John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd.
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

TDJohn wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:56 pm Mel,
Your statement that Matt has not responded in 10 days is just plain false. See his quoted post here, that he posted with photos 3 days ago. Note the sections that I highlighted that explains why he might not update us right away.
Considering the weather for folks living up north and that life's circumstances can throw a monkey wrench into someones repair progress, it doesn't seem fair nor nice to discourage others from posting on an active topic because the OP did not respond in a so-called "timely manner", especially when the individual is asking for input. This is very different than replying to a dormant post that has been dormant in access of 3 months.
John
Because Matt did post twice on Jan 20, I apologize for incorrectly stating that "we haven't heard a peep from Mat since Jan 15".
Matt opened this topic with a post on Mon Jan 13, 10 days ago....but I never said "Matt has not responded in 10 days".
Nor did I intend for my post to "throw a monkey wrench into someones repair progress" or to "discourage others from posting on an active topic".
However you are free to interpret what I, and others, post any way you like.

Remember, the rest of us can't see your facial expressions to know how you meant something to sound, and it is very easy to misconstrue a simple comment sometimes. Disagreements happen - but the key is to keep them as minimal as possible...(05wingrider Safarifriends Moderator » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:25 am)
Last edited by stuplich@ymail.com on Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

matcappel wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:45 am Hello fellow Safari friends!

I ordered the BlueFire 6 Pin adapter for Android last week (This device plugs into the diagnostics port under the dash and sends a wireless communication to a tablet, phone or laptop to create a custom dash). Last week I ran into some issues... I am hoping someone can maybe point me in the right direction to what to look for, I'm hoping it's a fuse issue.

We have a 1997 Safari, Serengeti with CAT engine and Allison Transmission - 6 Pin BluFire + Android. The batteries have been low (weak) this winter, both house and engine. Not dead, just weak, so our plan is to replace them in late February before our first trip south in March. So I was in the process of jumping / charging the RV with our Mazda to give it enough juice to start. While waiting for it to fully charge up I thought I'd go ahead and plug in the BlueFire device for the first time and connect it. With the ignition off I plugged it in and then turned key to "ignition" without starting. It blinked and I connected and I was getting data. My goal last evening was to see what data is pulled so I could customize the dash layout. So after another minute I turned the key and started the Safari (I think it took two cranks as it was a little cold and had been a few weeks sitting). It seemed to stay connected to the android fine, or maybe chirped once and reconnected. I went to see the dash layout after starting and nothing displayed. So I went back to the maintenance screen and now nothing showed. The Safari vehicle dash was all working fine (RPM, Fuel, Etc) however the Allison threw a code... "SERVICE". I looked the code up in our service manual and it said that this code happens when it does not receive data from the transmission at all. I fear maybe I had the device rotated wrong and shorted something, so I shut off the RV after maybe 10 minutes of idling and pulled the BlueFire out and disconnected the jumping car. I then made sure the 4 active pins aligned with the 4 pins on the diagnostics port perfect. I tried again and RV started right up and connected to laptop but no data received. After a minute or two I got the SERVICE code again from the transmission. I believe (and hope) maybe I blew a fuse somehow or had the device inserted rotated and caused a feedback current? I don't think it's the device as it still connects and pulls the VIN and worked prior to the SERVICE code.

Any direction or thoughts would be greatly appreciated! I'm so looking forward to getting on the road with this new setup.

Here is the response from BlueFire, "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like our adapter may not be fully compatible with your older ECMs. 1997 is pretty early in the J1708 era and we’ve seen others with the same issue. You might take a look at the Getting Started document section J1708 6-Pin Adapter (at the end of the document). It might provide some helpful tips. But if not, you can return the adapter for a full refund."

So after reviewing the trouble shooting tips (all had to do with software configurations). I'm afraid I blew out my ECM for the transmission and the engine since both don't seem to be sending data. The transmission control still says, "SERVICE" and is getting no signal from the ECM. Apparently all my research never indicated that the BlueFire may not only NOT be compatible but can damage other components. Can anyone help point me to where to look for fuses for the ECM's or how to test / find them?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read / respond any thoughts!!
Matt
Have you found a soultion or made any more progress since you last posted on Jan 20?
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison
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matcappel
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

Hey all,

Sorry for the silence for a bit. It was super wicked cold here and was not up to messing with metal at 17° as a high. So I did buy all new batteries for coach and for house side. so when I connected the coach batteries and stuck the wires on the positive post, oh boy! Sparks everywhere!! Like cool fireworks show. The ground side the brand new battery is black and started melting, so something more is up and it has me scared that I am making things worse. I am very gun shy at this point to do anything on this. I have a guy coming to help. I think an extra hand is gonna be good and someone verify things. I will keep you posted, but weather here has not been cooperating.

I think I will tackle my driver side window and remove to redoing the double pain to remove moisture... that stuff doesn't scare me as much as electrical when it's not working right and sparks with expensive ECM and ECU computers.

I will make sure to capture the full solution and post it here once I can get someone out to the house.

Thank you!!
Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
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matcappel
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

matcappel wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:18 pm So I did buy all new batteries for coach and for house side. so when I connected the coach batteries and stuck the wires on the positive post, oh boy! Sparks everywhere!! Like cool fireworks show. The ground side the brand new battery is black and started melting, so something more is up and it has me scared that I am making things worse. I am very gun shy at this point to do anything on this. I have a guy coming to help. I think an extra hand is gonna be good and someone verify things. I will keep you posted, but weather here has not been cooperating.

I think I will tackle my driver side window and remove to redoing the double pain to remove moisture... that stuff doesn't scare me as much as electrical when it's not working right and sparks with expensive ECM and ECU computers.
Just wanted to post a quick correction, the above, "So I did buy all new batteries for Engine and for house side. so when I connected the Engine batteries..." I
Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
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matcappel
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

***UPDATE***
Mobile Tech had some down time today and met me at the house... So, tech came out, looked at it for 30 seconds and goes, "I think those two wires with the green ribon go to ground". He used a sacrificial 5 amp blade fuse to test rather than having it arc and blow something, nothing bad. 3 minutes later he goes, "Fire it up"... Go figure, it started right up! I waited for the "SERVICE" code to come up and it didn't. I plugged in the new Bluefire module and BINGO!! It all works!! Dang, just like that. Lesson learned, apparently (according to the tech), the ECM requires around 10.8 Volts to even boot up. Unless the battery is at 10.8 it won't even start the ECM up thus throwing the service code. This feature protects it from idiots like me that cross wires and leave low voltage batteries in for too long. Tech also plugged in the diagnostics port and checked for codes, all good!

I had my wires crossed. Go figure!

So great news for me, the tech charged me $0 for 1/2 hour of time and some good laughs at my expense. I forced a $20 on him to at least to get lunch and cover gas. The Dragon Wagon is back in action!! Part 2 of good news is, the Bluefire upgrade to the Silverleaf works (as long as batteries are good and ECM is running). It seems to be pulling numbers good from engine and from the transmission for the little I messed with it. I will play with it more later.

Thank you all so much for your help and guidance!
Here is our Dragon Wagon
Here is our Dragon Wagon
Dragon Wagon Final.JPG (2.17 MiB) Viewed 5912 times
Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
Safaritoonces
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by Safaritoonces »

Glad to hear you got it going, and also compliments to the really decent and honorable guy that worked on your rig. If he has a web site or manager you might consider giving him a very good review. He is an exception to the rule of those I have encountered in the RV tech industry.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
fertooos
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by fertooos »

I see you have solved your issue. It is very good. Can you make a step by step instructions for those who will come across a similar problem? I believe you can even create a separate thread for it. What do you think? I am based in https://postcodefinder.net/scotland/glasgow and occasionally got here, but I like the content a lot. I would recommend the site to all my friends now.
Last edited by fertooos on Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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