Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

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matcappel
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Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

Hello fellow Safari friends!

I ordered the BlueFire 6 Pin adapter for Android last week (This device plugs into the diagnostics port under the dash and sends a wireless communication to a tablet, phone or laptop to create a custom dash). Last week I ran into some issues... I am hoping someone can maybe point me in the right direction to what to look for, I'm hoping it's a fuse issue.

We have a 1997 Safari, Serengeti with CAT engine and Allison Transmission - 6 Pin BluFire + Android. The batteries have been low (weak) this winter, both house and engine. Not dead, just weak, so our plan is to replace them in late February before our first trip south in March. So I was in the process of jumping / charging the RV with our Mazda to give it enough juice to start. While waiting for it to fully charge up I thought I'd go ahead and plug in the BlueFire device for the first time and connect it. With the ignition off I plugged it in and then turned key to "ignition" without starting. It blinked and I connected and I was getting data. My goal last evening was to see what data is pulled so I could customize the dash layout. So after another minute I turned the key and started the Safari (I think it took two cranks as it was a little cold and had been a few weeks sitting). It seemed to stay connected to the android fine, or maybe chirped once and reconnected. I went to see the dash layout after starting and nothing displayed. So I went back to the maintenance screen and now nothing showed. The Safari vehicle dash was all working fine (RPM, Fuel, Etc) however the Allison threw a code... "SERVICE". I looked the code up in our service manual and it said that this code happens when it does not receive data from the transmission at all. I fear maybe I had the device rotated wrong and shorted something, so I shut off the RV after maybe 10 minutes of idling and pulled the BlueFire out and disconnected the jumping car. I then made sure the 4 active pins aligned with the 4 pins on the diagnostics port perfect. I tried again and RV started right up and connected to laptop but no data received. After a minute or two I got the SERVICE code again from the transmission. I believe (and hope) maybe I blew a fuse somehow or had the device inserted rotated and caused a feedback current? I don't think it's the device as it still connects and pulls the VIN and worked prior to the SERVICE code.

Any direction or thoughts would be greatly appreciated! I'm so looking forward to getting on the road with this new setup.

Here is the response from BlueFire, "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like our adapter may not be fully compatible with your older ECMs. 1997 is pretty early in the J1708 era and we’ve seen others with the same issue. You might take a look at the Getting Started document section J1708 6-Pin Adapter (at the end of the document). It might provide some helpful tips. But if not, you can return the adapter for a full refund."

So after reviewing the trouble shooting tips (all had to do with software configurations). I'm afraid I blew out my ECM for the transmission and the engine since both don't seem to be sending data. The transmission control still says, "SERVICE" and is getting no signal from the ECM. Apparently all my research never indicated that the BlueFire may not only NOT be compatible but can damage other components. Can anyone help point me to where to look for fuses for the ECM's or how to test / find them?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read / respond any thoughts!!
Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
stuplich@ymail.com
Posts: 1146
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No sender? (was:Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU)

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

matcappel wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:45 am Hello fellow Safari friends!
I ordered the BlueFire 6 Pin adapter for Android last week (This device plugs into the diagnostics port under the dash and sends a wireless communication to a tablet, phone or laptop to create a custom dash). Last week I ran into some issues... I am hoping someone can maybe point me in the right direction to what to look for, I'm hoping it's a fuse issue.
We have a 1997 Safari, Serengeti with CAT engine and Allison Transmission - 6 Pin BluFire + Android. The batteries have been low (weak) this winter, both house and engine. Not dead, just weak, so our plan is to replace them in late February before our first trip south in March. So I was in the process of jumping / charging the RV with our Mazda to give it enough juice to start. While waiting for it to fully charge up I thought I'd go ahead and plug in the BlueFire device for the first time and connect it. With the ignition off I plugged it in and then turned key to "ignition" without starting. It blinked and I connected and I was getting data. My goal last evening was to see what data is pulled so I could customize the dash layout. So after another minute I turned the key and started the Safari (I think it took two cranks as it was a little cold and had been a few weeks sitting). It seemed to stay connected to the android fine, or maybe chirped once and reconnected. I went to see the dash layout after starting and nothing displayed. So I went back to the maintenance screen and now nothing showed. The Safari vehicle dash was all working fine (RPM, Fuel, Etc) however the Allison threw a code... "SERVICE". I looked the code up in our service manual and it said that this code happens when it does not receive data from the transmission at all. I fear maybe I had the device rotated wrong and shorted something, so I shut off the RV after maybe 10 minutes of idling and pulled the BlueFire out and disconnected the jumping car. I then made sure the 4 active pins aligned with the 4 pins on the diagnostics port perfect. I tried again and RV started right up and connected to laptop but no data received. After a minute or two I got the SERVICE code again from the transmission. I believe (and hope) maybe I blew a fuse somehow or had the device inserted rotated and caused a feedback current? I don't think it's the device as it still connects and pulls the VIN and worked prior to the SERVICE code.
Any direction or thoughts would be greatly appreciated! I'm so looking forward to getting on the road with this new setup.
Here is the response from BlueFire, "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like our adapter may not be fully compatible with your older ECMs. 1997 is pretty early in the J1708 era and we’ve seen others with the same issue. You might take a look at the Getting Started document section J1708 6-Pin Adapter (at the end of the document). It might provide some helpful tips. But if not, you can return the adapter for a full refund."
So after reviewing the trouble shooting tips (all had to do with software configurations). I'm afraid I blew out my ECM for the transmission and the engine since both don't seem to be sending data. The transmission control still says, "SERVICE" and is getting no signal from the ECM. Apparently all my research never indicated that the BlueFire may not only NOT be compatible but can damage other components. Can anyone help point me to where to look for fuses for the ECM's or how to test / find them?
Thank you so much for taking the time to read / respond any thoughts!!
matcappel
What "Transmission Control Information" are you trying to read with the BlueFire adapter?

If it's the "fluid level"... that can be checked/read electronically using the Allison push button shift pad.

However I was told, (by the maker of the ScangaugeD), that my particular Cat 3126 powered '96 Sahara, (and many like coaches with the Allison MD3060 transmission), MAY NOT have the SENDERS required/needed for whiz-bang electronic gadgets to display the transmission fluid temperature.
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison
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matcappel
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

Hello Mel,

Thanks for response. I think our setup is very similar. Yes, I think you are correct that our model appears to be too old to send full information. I plugged in the Bluefire and before starting the rig I pulled the information on the screenshots I am attaching (I took these not knowing it would fail). It did actually pull some information as you can see. Now, on the transmission switch pad only I am only getting the message, "SERVICE". According to the Allison manual this means that no data is being received from the transmission ECM. So essentially everything worked fine and then plugging in the BlueFire and turning the engine on and now no data. Perhaps it got feedback to blow out something. Now it reads nothing when I plug in the BlueFire device to the diagnostic port as well. With the Bluefire unplugged completely, I get this "SERVICE" transmission message (again meaning "no signal recieved"). So something happened to the Allison, either fuse in-line, ECM, or something else... I don't know how to even find the Transmission ECM or any inline fuse.

The ScangaugeD looks like that would do a lot of the same and be a useful tool (of course, not at the moment for us)!

So I'm looking for any help with what may have happened, how to fix this / test and where to physically locate fuses and ECM for transmission, or any other thoughts?

Thanks so much!
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Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
Safaritoonces
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by Safaritoonces »

If you want to find where your ECU is and further information on the fuses, here is a presentation that might help. This is for a Cat 3126B engine.

https://safaritoonces.org/project-tree- ... -to-start/

It is unlikely that you have damaged any of the control computers. The port you are connecting to is an ODBII port and is a diagnostic port and does not have access to the control bus to the other computers. The physical connection to the bus is two pins Tx and Rx, Power and Ground. This is a very simple 2 wire bus and unless you patched signals onto the bus you would not have damaged anything by plugging in your module, also this is a keyed plug and can not be inserted incorrectly as long as your BlueFire also has a key. But even if not I think the pins are staggered and it would not insert correctly. The fact that it worked for a time then stopped indicates to me that what has failed is probably the BlueFire. Now it could have damaged a transceiver on the bus but that is not very likely. These bus's were designed to be and are in billions of vehicles and meant to be serviced by the bottom end of the IQ spectrum, i.e. the RV techs that worked on my coach and as such was designed to make it idiot proof. The different bus system J1850, J1708 are protocol standards for the message layer, not the physical hardware layer. That means that in the information packet the data offsets and requests by the sender are different codes, hence why the software does not work, the offsets are wrong and message codes different. The hardware interface is the CAN bus and is a SAE standard and designed to preclude connection error. The only exception to this is if your BlueFire damaged the bus, but this is very unlikely, as these are what is called open collector signals and the device connecting to the bus sources the current and damages itself if it fails, not other devices on the bus. What may have happened is the 12v circuit on your RV could have taken out a fuse on the transmission module if there was a charging problem because of the batteries. This may be a coincidence.... so without going to far afield and speculating, I would suggest that the first step is check the VIM fuses in the transmission control module and watch the link I sent you.

If your coach starts you are ahead of the game, the CAT ECM is also on the ODBII bus. Will the transmission shift into gear? Will it drive if in gear? If so then something else is amiss and the transmission VIM ECU(ECM I think is Engine Control Module) is not likely damaged.

I have the scangauge software for my Ford Diesel but mainly for diagnostics and it works well but I wouldn't use this for a driving display but that is just my personal opinion. For the Safari I use VMSpc, it is an older interface but works and is reliable. I just talked with one of the owners a few minutes ago and they are planning to bring out an updated interface in the spring. There has been a delay, it was supposed to be out in November. But if you decide this is the product you want don't get this product based on the new version promised, go with what is currently being sold so you won't be disappointed if it is delayed further. Or look for an alternative among the other users, I bought mine in 2017 so something better may be available now.

https://www.silverleafelectronics.com/s ... onics.com/
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
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matcappel
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

Wow Robert, that is fantastic information indeed!! That makes sense that the ECM and ECU are not damaged as it does start and shift to first and reverse. My wife also suggested doing a system rest by pulling cables from batteries and grounding it out then reconnecting. Once I clear the "SERVICE" code and if the BlueFire is indeed incompatible and I can't get it to work correctly with the J1708 bus then I am thinking that the VMSpc may be worth the wait. Great insider info on that!! I'm off to check the IM fuses and the transmission control module (hopefully mine is by the batteries in the back). The other thing that happened was, after I jumped the RV, I slid the battery tray back in place and it hit a group of the cables bundled poorly behind the tray. I wonder if I could have severed something there that is causing the issue. Very nice video and explanation. Sounds like these fuses can be very fragile. Very helpful! I will keep this updated on what I find tonight.
Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
TDJohn
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by TDJohn »

Matt,

Besides checking the fuses and connections, consider looking up the procedures in your Allison manual to check transmission fluid level and also pulling codes, if any, and post your results. Also, be sure that your engine is not set on high idle when you are try to shift.
John
'95 Serengeti, Cummins C8.3-300
Allison 6spd.
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by Safaritoonces »

Matt, I don't think your transmission module is in the battery bay. That is near the shift pad usually, mine was under the shift pad, some are on the firewall.

Usually you can't clear these codes by removing the power etc, this is not like a notepad. I would not recommend grounding anything. You have not damaged anything at this point. The codes are normally stored in flash memory and persist with loss of power. Most systems I have worked with will remove the code if the error condition goes away or there is a procedure to reset the code.

I had the same problem with the batteries and cables. I did a presentation on the battery tray and it shows the relays and so on and the way I corrected the cabling problem on my coach. Look in the menu on the following link and you will see the battery tray presentation.
https://safaritoonces.org

You can also look through the files section of this forum and there should be a manual on the Allison MD3060 transmission. This will have the error codes, otherwise if you want to you can do a google search or check some other forums. Or Allison will have a manual you can download if you go to their site. That transmission is a work of engineering elegance and very well designed and documented.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
Safaritoonces
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:51 am
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Contact:

Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by Safaritoonces »

Matt, I don't think your transmission module is in the battery bay. That is near the shift pad usually, mine was under the shift pad, some are on the firewall.

Usually you can't clear these codes by removing the power etc, this is not like a notepad. I would not recommend grounding anything. You have not damaged anything at this point. The codes are normally stored in flash memory and persist with loss of power. Most systems I have worked with will remove the code if the error condition goes away or there is a procedure to reset the code.

I had the same problem with the batteries and cables. I did a presentation on the battery tray and it shows the relays and so on and the way I corrected the cabling problem on my coach. Look in the menu on the following link and you will see the battery tray presentation.
https://safaritoonces.org

You can also look through the files section of this forum and there should be a manual on the Allison MD3060 transmission. This will have the error codes, otherwise if you want to you can do a google search or check some other forums. Or Allison will have a manual you can download if you go to their site. That transmission is a work of engineering elegance and very well designed and documented.
Robert and Bev Lewis
2000 Safari Continental, since 2017
3126B Cat, 330hp
MD3060 Allison
Bowen Island, BC

https://safaritoonces.org/
User avatar
matcappel
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:33 am
Location: East Dublin, GA
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Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by matcappel »

Robert,

Your right, I shouldn't have screwed with batteries and grounding the system. I have now created some permanent issues. Yikes. Now the ignition comes on but when I turn the key it doesn't even "click" for the solenoid. I think I am going to look into bringing a professional out to fix the mess I have created. I know just enough to get me into serious trouble. When it comes to replacing air compressors, interior, etc I got it, when it comes to all these ECM's I am like a bull in a China shop apparently. :cry:
Matt Cappel / 513-709-9555
1997 Safari Serengeti - 37' (CAT / Allison) - The "Dragon Wagon"
stuplich@ymail.com
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:51 am

Re: Silverleaf Upgrade / Transmission ECU

Post by stuplich@ymail.com »

matcappel wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:22 am Robert,
Your right, I shouldn't have screwed with batteries and grounding the system. I have now created some permanent issues. Yikes. Now the ignition comes on but when I turn the key it doesn't even "click" for the solenoid. I think I am going to look into bringing a professional out to fix the mess I have created. I know just enough to get me into serious trouble. When it comes to replacing air compressors, interior, etc I got it, when it comes to all these ECM's I am like a bull in a China shop apparently. :cry:
matcappel
Good luck with that. 👍

Sadly I've learned that "professionals" often know as little as I do when it comes to ECM's.
Back in 2002 it took a "professional" at Detroit Diesel, (an "Authorized Allison shop" in Bloomington, MN), 3-1/2 days to find and fix the badly corroded wire running from a positive post on my chassis battery to the Allison VIM... (which had been causing a DO NOT SHIFT condition).

Diagnostics, 15 feet of 14 gauge wire, 2 crimp on wire connectors and labor cost me over $1,500.00. :(
(BTW the original bill, which I flatly refused to pay, was over $2,400.00). :o
Last edited by stuplich@ymail.com on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mel
'96 Sahara 3530, mine since '01
250 hp 3126 Cat, MD3060 Allison
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