Crappy Wiring?

[btpete]

So here is a question for people to chew on: is the Safari motorcoach poorly wired? Please read on to see why I ask the question.

My 1998 Continental, which I've owned for the last eight years, is a wonderful candidate for remodeling. As a small step in that direction, my project for last weekend was to install a 4-port AC-to-USB charging module in a space that once housed a switch for the 120 VAC lighting in the bottom of the passenger-side overhead cabinet above the recliner. A recent conversion to 12 VDC for those lights rendered the light switch that lived in that location useless, so I repurposed it to be a USB charging connection. The journey begins. But first, the successful outcome.

Here is the new USB charging port, installed and fully functional, with the newly-installed 12 VDC LED lights in the background:

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Looks and works good. So where's the problem? Behind the curtains, of course.

The lights on the bottom of the overhead cabinet were converted (reconverted?) from 120 VAC to 12 VDC by my local RV repair facility, folks who've worked on this coach for several years. The lights work fine, I'm mostly happy with that. Unfortunately for me, they repurposed the 120 VAC wiring for the 12 VDC conversion, which meant that I needed to run new AC wiring for the USB charging module. No big deal, I thought, just find a junction box and make it work. Alas, being the relative newbie that I am, I went on a wild goose chase forward through the passenger overhead cabinet to the Girard awning control module at the front -- which is behind the panel with the GVWR decal -- before discovering another junction point less than 12" from the USB module location. So now I had two places to choose from for the new wiring, but this is where the real fun began. It turns out that both locations had a place where I could tie into an existing AC electrical circuit, and both looked identical. What I was not expecting is what the junction points would be; in each instance, a panel was screwed to the side of the cabinet enclosure, with residential AC electrical wires connected at both ends. Naively, I thought this was maybe some sort of sophisticated junction point:

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Wrong. Pulling the covers off revealed that the connections were punch-down type, with one or more incoming or outgoing wires at each punch-down point:

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OK, weird, but not unprecedented. The real surprise was when I turned the junction point over to examine what I thought was the back side. Wrong again. The back side was unmasked as the front of an ordinary residential AC outlet. Say what?!??

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So the electrician types among you are probably chuckling at my newbieness right now, but my first thought was, is this 1998 code-compliant? Knowing the original retail price for this coach, I was a little bit appalled. A standard (and somewhat cheap) punch-down AC outlet panel working as a junction point... really?? OK, I get how this could work, and the fact that this 22-year-old coach isn't having AC electrical problems is a testament to the concept, but still... I resolved to update the whole mess at both ends of the cabinet.

The solution was rather simple: replace the cheesy punch-down outlets with simple push-in wire connectors, available at any big box home improvement store. I think I bought these at Home Depot although I'm not sure since I've had them for a while, having originally purchased them for a different project.

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It was about a three hour job total, including breaks for replacing stuff I damaged when getting the original outlet/junction points out. This is what the wiring up front looked like when it was all said and done. Notice that the little orange connectors have replaced the low-rent punch-down residential outlet:

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Notice also how the current limiting device for the awning is kind of just jammed in there; it looks untidy, but it fits and I didn't have to do any more wiring work. The space it's in now is where the funky junction point/residential outlet once lived. I honestly don't remember where the current limiter was when I took everything out.

Another shot, showing the awning control module:

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And finally, the panel with the GVWR decal back to what it was before I started messing around:

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It was about a three hour job to redo two junction points at both ends of the cabinet and wire in the USB charging module, including breaks for replacing stuff I damaged when getting the original outlet/junction points out.

Special note: The push-in connectors only work with solid copper wire, not stranded. When wiring the USB charging module, I used standard wire nuts, as the module came with stranded wire.

To be clear, I wired the USB charger into the rear part of the cabinet, and what I'm showing here is the work I did at the front, where the awning control modules reside. This allowed me to reroute some awning control wiring (another WTF moment) without actually having to disconnect/reconnect the current limiter device. At any rate, everything is working perfectly, the coach hasn't burned down due to my wiring efforts, and it all takes up less space. Who can say no to that?

Back to my original question: is the Safari motorcoach poorly wired to begin with, or is mine an outlier?

[TDJohn]

Brian,

There is one issue with the way you redid the wiring. The push in wire connectors that you used are supposed to be contained either in the outlet box (if there is enough room) or in its own junction box. This is likely why RV manufacturers use those style outlets. Even though that style of an outlet my seem weird, cheap, and/or flimsy, they actually work well, when installed properly. They actually provide a more solid connection because it allows one continuous wire run, without needing to break and splice the wire with additional connectors. Each connection point is an area of resistance, especially it the connection gets loose. This style outlet also eliminates the need for additional junction boxes, and allows for a quicker, more efficient installation, which translates into keeping costs down for the customers.
As for the Safari wiring, I don't have issues with mine, and I didn't see any issue with your wiring, even though there were no pictures of the original setup, which would have shown if there were issues.

Since you installed 12v LED lights, did you consider installing a USB charging port that could have run off of 12V? This would have eliminated the additional headache that you went through, and would also eliminate the need to use an inverter, when you are without shore power.

Except for the lack of the needed junction box, it's a clean rewire.

[stuplich@ymail.com]

So here is a question for people to chew on: is the Safari motorcoach poorly wired?

btpete
The only Safari "wiring issue" I've had has been with poor quality crimps on/of the 12V connectors/terminals:
(I've had to replace dozens).
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/291155466 ... -l1000.jpg

[btpete]

Thank you for the replies, that helps me understand a little better. I still think it's low-rent on a coach whose original price tag had six digits to the left of the decimal point, but as I mentioned, the 120 VAC wiring hasn't given me any problems since I've owned the coach, which itself has over 100K on the odometer. I do believe, however, that it would have been a chancy proposition to add a new connection to the original junction, it did not look to me like there was enough space left to securely punch down additional wiring.

As far as the 12V USB, it is an option and I do have one elsewhere in the coach; this particular location had the right sized cutout for the 120 VAC charging port, having previously served as the location of a dimmer switch. Our RV adventures to date have mainly consisted of RV resorts and state parks that have full hookups, something the missus deems critical, so more 12 VDC USB charging hasn't been high on my to-do list.

And, echoing stuplich, I've also had a ton of problems with 12 VDC connections, and some recurring gremlins, one of which coincidentally happens to be the 12V USB that keeps blowing a fuse. A good reason in my mind to have alternate USB charging sources that don't require wall warts

[Safaritoonces]

Hi

I have a 2000 Continental and would say that the coach wiring is excellent. There are separate grounds for each 12v signal. All the sensor lines are fused, there is a breaker panel for 12v loads and 120v loads, the house and chassis wiring terminates in an electrical bay with neat well laid out wiring with a documented picture on the panel and signals there use re-settable breakers. High amp circuits run through heavy solenoids or relays. The wire gauge exceeds the maximum amperage draw for any given circuit. The wire quality is excellent and all of mine are printed every 2' with the signal name (older coaches are not so labelled unfortunately) the connections on the crimps are made well and by a machine. I note that Mel did have problems and SMC may have improved the manufacturing along the way. I haven't seen these connection problems apart from the manual connections done afterwards by the RV dealers and all of these were a sorry mess.

I say this being an electrical engineer and having designed control systems both industrial and automotive. Compare this to the really cheap design of even a high end Mercedes, Ford, Chev all cars and trucks. They use the about 4 chassis connections (on my 99 Ford for example) as a return path ground and when the grounds corrode all manner of intermittent problems occur. Windows don't retract, the cruise resets or won't come on and on and on. My Ford truck has this problem right now.

Where most problems occur is in the dealer lot with RV techs that know enough to cobble together a solution with T connections and re-purposing existing wiring. Re-purposing a 120v system as a 12v system is a compromise that can come back to bite you. A better solution would have been to run new 12v lines, if the current draw was not too high for the existing wires then tie into an existing line after measuring the current draw. You could also have installed a 12v step down buck regulator for about $6 that is built for USB charging. I have been correcting wiring errors for about three years now on my coach, none of which were related to the original build but some limited experienced tech patching into circuits without really understanding what they were doing. The awning control does look like a mess as was mine, I just mounted it properly to avoid stain on the wires and it is better now. On my coach it was laying in a mess, stuffed behind a panel. It may have been built that way but I doubt it. Some less than wise person worked on something and stuffed it all back knowing the owners would never know, is my take on it.

I have a lot of electrical and other projects in my signature if you are interested. These may provide you with some further insights. All the best with your coach, they are worth the bit of remedial work it takes to bring them back to shape.

[btpete]

Sounds like you got a keeper there. Mine has some of the same stuff, but, forget the labeled wiring; I had to install my own solenoids for the headlights; it's had more blown fuses and broken ground connections than I can immediately recall; and the inverter/charger is installed on the opposite side of the coach from the house batteries, with about 10' of regular battery cable connecting them together. Who ordered that? This year is the first time I've dived into the AC wiring, though, since it hasn't given me problems in the past.

I will also say that this coach did not lead a pampered life prior to my taking possession. It had been rode hard and put away wet far too often earlier in its life, and showed clear signs of neglect. I'd guess that it's been worked on by repair shops whose quality of work might well be characterized as indifferent. It wasn't my original intention to buy it, but the DW likes the layout and colors, and even in its sorry state it was still an upgrade from our ancient 30' gasser.

Don't get me wrong, I like this coach and plan to keep it until I can no longer drive. It's been continuously maintained, repaired and upgraded by a local Cat shop, a couple of RV shops and myself since 2012. I'd be embarrassed to reveal the ridiculous amount of money I've spent on it in that time, but it's in a whole different place now from when I bought it. Plans for a complete remodel will undoubtedly take the number much higher and a big piece of that is the major redo of both 120 VAC and 12 VDC. We'll see how far down that path I get.

Cheers,

[Safaritoonces]

These coaches can soak up money fast especially in RV and CAT time-and materials..
You mentioned blown fuses and ground problems. One area I would suggest you look closely at is the power reel contacts, if you have a power reel. This caused a major portion of my grief. If you have a power reel it will have slip rings, they pit and arc, then fuse. This damaged control boards in ITR hurricanine heater, weakened the breakers by constant bouncing between shore power and inverter and other issues. Check this site or the link in my signature for a project I documented to repair the power reel. This may be irrelevant if you do not have a slip ring power reel. But there are a lot of pictures and other projects (dozens) that you may find helpful. All the best with your coach, good decision to keep on keeping on.

[btpete]

Yep, the power reel issue bit me early on. Broke the generator transfer switch and injured the Heart inverter/charger. I yanked it out but never bothered to replace it and probably won't. The transfer switch was replaced, a new Magnum inverter/charger was installed and, later on, a hard-wired surge protector joined the mix. The 50A cable coils neatly where the reel used to be; while heavy to manhandle when deploying and stowing, I enjoy better peace of mind with one less potential point of failure.

Cheers,

[TDJohn]

Brian,

Most diesel pusher Safaris had the inverter located on the opposite side from the batteries. It's not the most efficient setup, but if the proper gauge cables are used, it works. If you had a 2000W inverter, your cables from the factory should have been 3/0, which is adequate, but 4/0 would be better. If I remember correctly, Magnum specs actually call for 4/0 for that length of run.

Safaris did lack the relays for the headlights, it was unfortunately one of their cost cutting shortcuts, which caused the headlights to be somewhat dim and also put an undo load on the headlight and dimmer switches. But it is a very easy and simple upgrade.

Sorry to hear about the poor condition of your coach. Most Safaris have a similar layout, so the choices are plentiful, but one must keep the dear wife happy. The good thing is another Safari will gradually be restored to it's glory. I'm sure that many of these coaches will still be on the road when they are 50+ years old. The are well built, durable, and fairly simple, with a timeless look. I doubt that many of these new high tech modern coaches will live this long. It is expensive enough to maintain our quality Safaris, I can't imagine the cost and logistics of maintaining and repairing these high tech electronic coaches as they get older. Another place where Safaris shine is their quality paint job, which helps them look newer than the really are. Of course the murals are a big bonus too...
Overall, Safari achieved their goal of building a quality high end coach at an affordable price. Yes, they did take some shortcuts, and did do some goofy stuff, but overall these coaches were and still are a lot of bang for the buck.

[stuplich@ymail.com]

Brian,
Most diesel pusher Safaris had the inverter located on the opposite side from the batteries. It's not the most efficient setup, but if the proper gauge cables are used, it works. If you had a 2000W inverter, your cables from the factory should have been 3/0, which is adequate, but 4/0 would be better. If I remember correctly, Magnum specs actually call for 4/0 for that length of run.
Safaris did lack the relays for the headlights, it was unfortunately one of their cost cutting shortcuts, which caused the headlights to be somewhat dim and also put an undo load on the headlight and dimmer switches. But it is a very easy and simple upgrade.
Sorry to hear about the poor condition of your coach. Most Safaris have a similar layout, so the choices are plentiful, but one must keep the dear wife happy. The good thing is another Safari will gradually be restored to it's glory.

I'm sure that many of these coaches will still be on the road when they are 50+ years old.
They are well built, durable, and fairly simple, with a timeless look.
I doubt that many of these new high tech modern coaches will live this long.
It is expensive enough to maintain our quality Safaris, I can't imagine the cost and logistics of maintaining and repairing these high tech electronic coaches as they get older.
Another place where Safaris shine is their quality paint job, which helps them look newer than the really are.
Of course the murals are a big bonus too...
Overall, Safari achieved their goal of building a quality high end coach at an affordable price.
Yes, they did take some shortcuts, and did do some goofy stuff, but overall these coaches were and still are a lot of bang for the buck.

Well said.